|
Post by pianoman on Nov 12, 2008 11:26:34 GMT -5
I must admit that I have been drawn into arguments with some on here, and I am sorry that I allowed that to happen, and if fairness I can say that I was new and not expecting personal attacks. If we are all claiming to be Christians, shouldn't we at least have a better way of not agreeing, than to personally attack and just outright slam others. I know some on here are so contrary that it is hard to resist, but we shouldn't we have compassion, not anger, and let their errant remarks fall to the ground, when we know that they are only seeking a reaction or to start something? Intelligent discussion allows for both to maintain their dignity, without having to come to agreement. I plan on having compassion and praying for those I know are contrary, in the future.
Another thing that I find troubling, is when we generalize and include all from a group in the actions of some and maybe even the majority of the group. Each group is made of individuals and since God is no respecter of persons, we must be also. I know people from the 2x2's and other Churches, and even individuals that don't affiliate with anything that are very Godly and spiritual. Shouldn't we address issues individually and not lump everyone together in statements. The perfect example is about child abuse. Some act like it is new and only happening in the 2x2's, when it happens in all facets of life and has for years and will continue. We can only keep our children safe by watching individuals, not groups and there is not really any group that can guarantee that your child is safe, so can we not also agree that we need to not generalize our comments to include all members of a group based on the actions of a few, or even the majority. God does know our hearts and I think he expects more from his children than bickering and accusations of whole groups. The Bible says that " you will know them by their love for one another". I think if we come on here and blast a group and leave out the individual aspect, we are not showing our love, and Jesus loved all men. Doesn't that mean that as our example we need to try and do the same. Brick, mentioned how hard it is to love his neighbors and that he didn't. That is honest, and I have people that I need to try to get over bitter feelings that I have against them, and I will never accomplish that by harboring bad feelings.
In General, shouldn't we all try to allow each other love and respect? I tell my grandkids about the golden rule, "Do unto others...." and they treat others badly and say "well that is the way they treated me". As I explain to them, just because you treat someone good, you can't expect that in return, but you must keep your attitude good to allow the door to remain open so that an adversary may enter in peace. I hope this will be taken as my thoughts on how we should behave, according to Christ's example and I am not condemning or singling out anyone. May we all have the peace of God in our hearts and try to show love to one another.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Nov 12, 2008 13:18:52 GMT -5
Hey there pianoman! May we all have the peace of God in our hearts and try to show love to one another. Amen to that, and your whole post. It really is sad the amount of bickering that goes on here on the TMB. Where is the love in all this? I wonder that often, and some of those who post here and claim to 'know' the 'truth' and what is the 'right' way seem to be those who show the least amount of love to others. Especially when it is obvious that someone is struggling with an issue, and these righteous 'better than you' people respond with hurtful and harmful accusations. I have enjoyed your thoughts since you joined us here on the TMB. Here are a few of the things I enjoyed you have shared with us. I am one of those fellows that Christ sat and ate with and had fellowship with, the bottom of the barrel. I am greatful that I am that, because I know that Jesus came for me and as long as I keep my eyes on Him, I can't lose out
The best advice I could offer is to try to show Godly love to all involved, teach your children the difference between right and wrong and what God wants from them. You must be a good example!!! I am not saying perfect but just do your best.
This is a place to discuss God and his wishes for us as his children. That includes letting His Son die on the cross for the dumbest, cruelest, most ignorant person that has ever been on this planet. LOVE needs to be the main thing here, even to those that are incapable of showing it or understanding it. Imagine this......As Jesus lay there while being nailed to the cross, he had that same love for the man that was driving those nails in his hands.
The best thing I will always stress is to forgive and Love like Jesus loved.
It is too bad that people have to lash out, but here you can remain faceless and be as cruel as you choose, but God knows who we are and I hope that he will touch and soften the hearts of those that have that anger in them and help them to see that if it doesn't affect today's walk with God, it can't be of much importance. Please try and be kind and remember that we would not be discussing a lot of this if we didn't have a Master ( Jesus) that showed love through it all.
I have expressed the way I see it. Pray about it and let your answer come from God. He will let you know if you are doing something wrong, if you give it to him and honestly go by what he gives you. If the question comes from your heart, it may need attention. If it comes from someone else, ignore it..........
I am not wanting to be contrary, but you sound like you have all of the answers and I am going to tell you straight up, that anyone that I meet that "has all the answers" is the last person I am going to rely on.
I try to share experiences so that others can look and determine if it will help them, but I can save no one and only by the grace of God can I be saved. I must seek his face and let him use my heart as He will if I have the opportunity, but He will make the decision in the end.
Another thing about those that have all of the answers, I find they are like me in that they also have two ears and one mouth, the difference being they usually spend twice as much talking with one mouth, than listening with two ears.
I need to learn that elusive thing called patience, but when self appointed geniuses start teaching and it is obvious that they are really confused, I just go off. I will express my opinions and say that they are just that knowing I could be wrong
I am one of those dirty, filthy, unwashed lowlifes, that Jesus spent time with when he was here. I am still all of that in myself, but God has elevated me above that life to another, for which I am greatful.
Since our relationship with God is so personal and so important, we need to ask and be informed, we need to seek and find, knock and have it opened unto us and we can hardly go wrong if we have an open heart and seek to have the mind of Christ.
Some time has passed since my first posts and exposure to this site. It is really too bad that we all, me included, can't conduct ourselves with the dignity of Christ. He is the example to follow and when we get nasty and mean with each other, we depart from his presence.These are just some snippets from some of your posts. And maybe you thought no one was paying attention? Scott
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Nov 12, 2008 13:50:11 GMT -5
Scott, thanks for the words of encouragement, and yes, I didn't really think anyone was paying attention, but of course, that is not why I post. I am not important, and I don't want a following. I just feel that God compels me to understand certain things, and I try and share them. I am not the only one He talks to, and I am nobody special. I feel that if God put it in my heart and I share it, it may help others as their thoughts have helped me. The way I see it we are all struggling souls and we can either hold out a helping hand, or put our foot on the neck of a person that is already weighed down and make it worse for them. No one with a right mind can say that they have enjoyed it when someone has added to their burden. Thanks again Scott, and I enjoy many things from you and others, so we can uplift if we try and maybe out number, or at least out love those that are obviously in great spiritual pain. Peace be with you, Pianoman
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Nov 12, 2008 14:04:22 GMT -5
Scott, thanks for the words of encouragement, and yes, I didn't really think anyone was paying attention, but of course, that is not why I post. I am not important, and I don't want a following. I just feel that God compels me to understand certain things, and I try and share them. I am not the only one He talks to, and I am nobody special. I think you are wrong.....and right..... We are all important members of the body of Christ, and we are all NEEDED for the gifts we have to share. I do agree that we are not anybody 'special' (in and of ourselves) but on the other hand we ARE special (as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ) I feel that if God put it in my heart and I share it, it may help others as their thoughts have helped me. The way I see it we are all struggling souls and we can either hold out a helping hand, or put our foot on the neck of a person that is already weighed down and make it worse for them. No one with a right mind can say that they have enjoyed it when someone has added to their burden.I heartily agree with that. It is when we see a 'neighbor' who is down and out that we really need to use whatever gift we have to help them back up. Those of us who have 'been there/done that' understand the important roles others have played in our lives in helping us during difficult times. Thanks again Scott, and I enjoy many things from you and others, so we can uplift if we try and maybe out number, or at least out love those that are obviously in great spiritual pain. Peace be with you, Pianoman Being how we are both Washingtonians I of course feel a closeness to you as a fellow Northwesterner... (I am 'temporarily' living in Minnesota but will be back West someday....) Scott
|
|
shushy
Royal Member
Warning
50%
Posts: 8,009
|
Post by shushy on Nov 12, 2008 17:45:22 GMT -5
To me you both come across as Godly men.
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Nov 12, 2008 19:11:28 GMT -5
I will agree with you on the right and wrong thing, Scott. Best time that I have been in agreement when someone said that, (Chuckle) I hope to return someday too, but don't know when. Shushy, I forgot putting something in there about sucking up (LOL) but I have seen your posts too, and I think you are also in there when it comes to Godliness. Thank you for sharing though, and maybe there won't be the attacks I was expecting. Again, Peace to all
|
|
|
Post by MsMarie on Nov 13, 2008 2:15:11 GMT -5
There are some really profitable and interesting discussions on this board. I agree it is sad when it deteriorates as it very often does and to me, that is the time to leave that particular thread. But it really does take all sorts and some will always plunge confidently into more heated exchanges. Me, I just groan and look elsewhere for something better.
It doesn't feel good to be or even feel attacked and it is no wonder those under fire can become hostile in return in self defence.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Nov 14, 2008 1:24:14 GMT -5
MsMarie, Me, I just groan and look elsewhere for something better.People like you here fascinate me. You've been hanging around the TMB since July of 2003, and only have 211 posts. I'm guessing you've had to groan quite a few times...... You must have seen some real doozies here on the board come and go during that time. I like what you have had to say here though, when you take the time to post. Personally, I am so glad God will be the judge of who is his true servant and not some here who are so aggressive and unkind to each other. Each thread seems to disintegrate into one liners trying to score or hurt the other, often the same people.I am now happy to say I am a Christian and will never put another label on myself other than that. When I say I am a Christian, then I mean an active follower of Christ, worshipping, taking the bread and wine, congregating with other Christians etc. We know there are many people who say they are Christian because it sounds a lot better than saying you are not.I too believe there is a unifying spirit afoot because this is God's will - that they all be one. Now that I attend churches of my choice and continue to explore the bigger Christian world, I feel a strong sense of recognition when I meet someone who is just filled with love for God. These real Christians are to be found in diverse places, but it is for sure they are one and fulfilling God's purpose for unity.A thought which has stayed with me from an Easter sermon, was what was nailed above Jesus' head, ie a sign telling of His 'crime' saying King of the Jews. Try to imagine substituting your own name to hang above His head since it was your sins he paid for and the words we often hear ' personal Saviour', become real and piercing. Just a thought I wanted to share.....All those years in the Truth and only now, some thirty years later, do I realise the true nature of Jesus'sacrifice for me. If the first fruits are repentance, then the next surely are gratitude and love. His sacrifice is sufficient and complete and there is nothing I can do to deserve salvation, but He offers it free to those who will believe and accept it. To those who say, then you can go off and do what you want and never lose your salvation, then I would say that gratitude and love prevent me from wanting to sin, but that if I fail, then His shed blood washes away my failure and starts me anew.Guest - your perception is that exes are under pressure to find an alternative and it is my perception that no matter how many of us tell you this is not so and that we have found much happiness with fellow christians, you are simply not prepared to accept this. This is most likely because it just cannot fit with your beliefs that we are all destined for a lost eternity. How then could we be happy? Please allow us to tell you that very many of us have found joy and happiness outside the 2x2. Just a statement of fact which no amount of your private take on that, can alter. You don't have to feel obliged to tell those who express their happiness that they must be mistaken because you feel it must be otherwise. We have lost our fears about lost eternity unless we comply with the 2x2 rules - you can surely see how this would make anyone happier?
There is a big wide world out there with many, many christians who believe and serve the Lord with all their hearts - not in vain as you may believe, but in absolute truth and according to scripture.This board sometimes reminds me of the grownups quietly having a civilised get together, and then being invaded by a gang of mischievious and unmannerly kids. Often a thread will go so far, and then - here they come................. end of give and take discussion.Without money and organisation, no group can survive, whether it is the 2x2 or any other church. The only difference I can see is that the offerings of the former (which are expected, but never solicited) are very secretive in its amount and how it is spent, and 'worldly' churches do just the same, but openly and account for expenditure. If any church is to survive, its members do have to support it financially. I can't see why the 2x2 make such an issue of being secretive about something so obvious. I don't know why I keep coming back to this board. It is certainly comforting to realise I was not alone in my experiences and to share experiences with others who also came out and found happiness. It was just such a huge part of life for so many years and maybe it is like exploring a place where a tooth has been pulled out - you cannot leave it alone! ;D The old chestnut you then hear is this. Well I can do anything I want because I don't have to deserve salvation. Which is missing the point really. When you are truly converted, then the revelation of what has been done for you personally, causes the new man to want to serve Him from gratitude and at last, from joy. Salvation is sure. The new man will not be lost, as Jesus said he would keep every last one of them and no one would take them from His hand. We may wander off course from time to time, but are always drawn back, forgiven, cleansed and put on our feet again. We have a wonderful future unfolding in this life and in the next.There is a thread already on the board about 'once saved, always saved' and I would connect to this. Jesus said He would not lose those whom the Father gave to Him (and no man comes to Jesus unless the Father draw him) and I am coming to the belief that yes, once saved (or chosen), always saved because the truly elect cannot be lost, but will always be drawn back by the Father if wandering, will be corrected, chastised and set back on the pathway to heaven - over and over if necessary. If a person falls away completely, then it leads to the conclusion that that person was not elect in the first place. The great mystery is how and why God chose those He would save.
Justice is getting what we deserve and there can be no doubt what mankind deserves, quite apart from the sickness and death which has entered by sin, so I suppose you cannot say God is being unfair to us if what we deserve is justice only. Our thoughts are not His thoughts and our idea of democratic fairness is unlikely to affect God's way of dealing with us. Yes, I don't think I could put it better, and it took me some time to be able to accept this. I remember expressing outrage the first time I heard it but then I hunted through the bible and found it confirmed time after time. I came to really understand then that God's thoughts are not our thoughts. We all have those unsaved who are near and dear to us and it can make us feel desperately unhappy about them, but we don't know who the elect are and there is hope to the last breath. I suspect the thief on the cross had no idea he would end the day with Jesus in paradise, nor would those around his life up until then.How could anyone consider themselves sinless? It is the human condition from day to day and hour to hour, mostly in thoughts, often in words and sometimes in deeds too. There is no way we could ever be sinless in this life on earth, no not even if we spent half our lives on our knees. The elect and saved are no less sinful than anyone else and certainly not 'better' than others. How could they feel superior, knowing that they have done nothing to deserve salvation? But they do know where to present themselves in humility and repentance and where to obtain mercy, cleansing and forgiveness so that they can stand as righteous, or as the Bible says, justified.
It is all very simple really, cast off your own self righteousness, acknowledge your sinful condition and head for the only place of safety which is Jesus, repent and accept the garment of His sinless righteousness. He has paid the price for your garment and now places this on you so that wearing it, you can be accepted by his Father. You will often stain this garment with sin, but if you wear it, you are assured of forgiveness, cleansing, acceptance and the promise that He will never lose you.
The person who thinks himself sinless? Well we know the story of the two men who went up to pray and that is a good insight into the attitude God wants of us. Thanks for your participation here on the TMB. I had read many of these posts before I ever posted here, as I spent a lot of time reading through old posts when I found this board. See... I've been reading your posts too!! I have been contacted by quite a few people who NEVER post here, but come to read. They remark on the different posters who are here, and often they are not too impressed with some from their own church, but rather enjoy reading what some of us 'exes' have to share about our faith, and the freedom we have found in Christ. Scott
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Nov 14, 2008 1:42:28 GMT -5
Thank you, pianoman...I have been guilty of arguing time after time...normally with those who love to argue! But..that is NO defense...I should be responsible for my OWN behavior and not worry about theirs...THEY have to answer for that! Anyway....very good original post and thanks for the reminder. I always value what Scott brings to a conversation as well, and I intend to go read the rest of the thread shortly....take care, M.
|
|
|
Post by MsMarie on Nov 14, 2008 3:06:24 GMT -5
Scott, thank you for post which included so many quotes. I can identify with all the beliefs you now hold and expressed. We had to come through twenty years plus to get where we are now. Happy and confident and all the things we were told we could never be if we left. I especially liked what you said about recognising the real Spirit indwelling in other Christians in diverse places, I had mentioned this also. It reminds me of Mary meeting the mother of John the Baptist when the unborn children leapt in the womb in recognition.
I suppose I have spells where I read all on the boards and others where I visit seldom. But I think those of us who have had affililation with 2x2 will always feel a kinship with others who have the same experience and can talk the talk we all learned when we were members or even those who still are. It was a big chunk of our lives and will never be forgotten by any of us. Some exited with little damage and it is obvious that others were badly affected. Some still labour on defending the indefensible, but we all get drawn to the boards to share our experiences and thoughts even if sporadically.
It was great to note that the fighters are enjoying a respite and even admitting they like each other! I am sure they would be the first to admit they probably have more in common with each other than those who have no interest at all.
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Nov 14, 2008 18:55:02 GMT -5
I really want to thank all that have posted here. I was just hoping that those that read it, would respond at least in their hearts with a realization that we are responsible for our conduct, and being so guilty, myself of getting drawn into the ugliness, I wanted to at least come clean about how ashamed I was and now I am glad to see others with good positive responses here. Truthfully, I expected quite the opposite, but I guess when our ugliness is exposed, If we are really following Christ, we want that ugliness out of our lives. I am not wanting any credit for seeing something that we all see. I just wanted to put it into print and leave it at that. Thanks again for the positive posts, and we can remember that when we see our faults and repent, we are forgiven. I know, because I need lots of forgivness every day. Again, Peace and Love of God to all.............Pianoman
|
|
|
Post by Partaker on Nov 20, 2015 4:12:40 GMT -5
I must admit that I have been drawn into arguments with some on here, and I am sorry that I allowed that to happen, and if fairness I can say that I was new and not expecting personal attacks. If we are all claiming to be Christians, shouldn't we at least have a better way of not agreeing, than to personally attack and just outright slam others. I know some on here are so contrary that it is hard to resist, but we shouldn't we have compassion, not anger, and let their errant remarks fall to the ground, when we know that they are only seeking a reaction or to start something? Intelligent discussion allows for both to maintain their dignity, without having to come to agreement. I plan on having compassion and praying for those I know are contrary, in the future. Another thing that I find troubling, is when we generalize and include all from a group in the actions of some and maybe even the majority of the group. Each group is made of individuals and since God is no respecter of persons, we must be also. I know people from the 2x2's and other Churches, and even individuals that don't affiliate with anything that are very Godly and spiritual. Shouldn't we address issues individually and not lump everyone together in statements. The perfect example is about child abuse. Some act like it is new and only happening in the 2x2's, when it happens in all facets of life and has for years and will continue. We can only keep our children safe by watching individuals, not groups and there is not really any group that can guarantee that your child is safe, so can we not also agree that we need to not generalize our comments to include all members of a group based on the actions of a few, or even the majority. God does know our hearts and I think he expects more from his children than bickering and accusations of whole groups. The Bible says that " you will know them by their love for one another". I think if we come on here and blast a group and leave out the individual aspect, we are not showing our love, and Jesus loved all men. Doesn't that mean that as our example we need to try and do the same. Brick, mentioned how hard it is to love his neighbors and that he didn't. That is honest, and I have people that I need to try to get over bitter feelings that I have against them, and I will never accomplish that by harboring bad feelings. In General, shouldn't we all try to allow each other love and respect? I tell my grandkids about the golden rule, "Do unto others...." and they treat others badly and say "well that is the way they treated me". As I explain to them, just because you treat someone good, you can't expect that in return, but you must keep your attitude good to allow the door to remain open so that an adversary may enter in peace. I hope this will be taken as my thoughts on how we should behave, according to Christ's example and I am not condemning or singling out anyone. May we all have the peace of God in our hearts and try to show love to one another. I came across this old post and I think that it is a good one and still very relevant to today. Well put.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Nov 20, 2015 17:28:06 GMT -5
thanks for reviving it, partaker. When I saw 'Nov. 12' I wondered where it had been for 10 days, but then after some comments from people who aren't here now, I realized it is 2008!
|
|
|
Post by Partaker on Nov 20, 2015 19:09:49 GMT -5
thanks for reviving it, partaker. When I saw 'Nov. 12' I wondered where it had been for 10 days, but then after some comments from people who aren't here now, I realized it is 2008! You are welcome emy, I spend much time reflecting these days and reading some of these old postings, many are very helpful and worth revising. My best wishes go out to all those old posters who have moved on,they have left their marks behind.I do appreciate their contributions, and most ot the contributions of the current posters.
|
|