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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 2:45:24 GMT -5
Post by nancers777 on Sept 29, 2008 2:45:24 GMT -5
So if The Truth is such a cult why aren't conventions all over being raided?
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 3:25:26 GMT -5
Post by kiwi on Sept 29, 2008 3:25:26 GMT -5
So if The Truth is such a cult why aren't conventions all over being raided? Cause my dear it ain't
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 7:42:36 GMT -5
Post by harpsichord on Sept 29, 2008 7:42:36 GMT -5
Because it is a secret cult---
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outsidein
Junior Member
Don't know much...
Posts: 167
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 8:17:56 GMT -5
Post by outsidein on Sept 29, 2008 8:17:56 GMT -5
Because they aren't anarchistic, or apocalyptic...
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 8:39:54 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Sept 29, 2008 8:39:54 GMT -5
So if The Truth is such a cult why aren't conventions all over being raided? This doesn't really make much sense to me. EVEN IF it were 'legally' (whatever that means?) determined to be a cult, why would it get raided? The cults that we read about that get raided are not because they are cults, but because of illegal behavior. I could understand a convention getting raided by someone looking to get their hands on some of that much talked about convention stew however.... Scott
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 8:55:28 GMT -5
Post by nancers777 on Sept 29, 2008 8:55:28 GMT -5
Ok, so here is my thinking I guess. I don't believe that it is a cult and that is why I am asking. So many people come on here reporting brainwashing and that it is a cult and that there is all this stuff going on with the workers, much of which is illegal yet can't tell me why it hasn't been raided. As to the person who said "it is a secret cult" well at least you attempted but that can't be. It isn't all that hard to find huge barns with a ton of people when the town right next to it is only about 500 people like at Bird City or around that at Hotchkiss and all of the other conventions. Secret? Maybe in our daily world but secret conventions? I think not.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 8:58:15 GMT -5
Post by heal on Sept 29, 2008 8:58:15 GMT -5
There is already legal matters at present what do you mean nobody is doing anything about it?I could go on and on showing you contrary to what you said what about TTT? what about TLT want to hear more?
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 9:00:07 GMT -5
Post by heal on Sept 29, 2008 9:00:07 GMT -5
Ok, so here is my thinking I guess. I don't believe that it is a cult and that is why I am asking. So many people come on here reporting brainwashing and that it is a cult and that there is all this stuff going on with the workers, much of which is illegal yet can't tell me why it hasn't been raided. As to the person who said "it is a secret cult" well at least you attempted but that can't be. It isn't all that hard to find huge barns with a ton of people when the town right next to it is only about 500 people like at Bird City or around that at Hotchkiss and all of the other conventions. Secret? Maybe in our daily world but secret conventions? I think not. 2x2's are secret to about half of all christians & known to the other half
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 9:31:35 GMT -5
Post by nancers777 on Sept 29, 2008 9:31:35 GMT -5
Whether someone is Christian or not, people know about them. Not many in our daily lives as I said but the conventions are quite obvious really. And as I said if there are illegal things going on why haven't there been a bunch of raids? This just doesn't add up. But sure, tell me what is going on. If things have been being done why doesn't it show up at all? The government wouldn't keep it secret. We WOULD hear about it, at least one raid.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 11:25:59 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 11:25:59 GMT -5
nancers777, are you new here? Let me speak for the general cult-basher here: You misunderstand the use and purpose of the word "cult", at least as it is used on this board. There is nothing illegal or brainwashing or satanic about it; we use the word purely as a derogative insult, knowing we can get a rise out of f&w's because most people equate cults to brainwashed, satanic, illegal activities, and we get away with this by defining the word "cult" when questioned to mean "any religion that doesn't believe quite the way mainstream Christianity does." This useful definition also handily prevents us from having treat our own Christian churches as cults, even though we have nearly as many cultish traits as f&w's. Cool, ain't it?
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 11:30:44 GMT -5
Post by Jim Niles on Sept 29, 2008 11:30:44 GMT -5
Whether someone is Christian or not, people know about them. Not many in our daily lives as I said but the conventions are quite obvious really. And as I said if there are illegal things going on why haven't there been a bunch of raids? This just doesn't add up. But sure, tell me what is going on. If things have been being done why doesn't it show up at all? The government wouldn't keep it secret. We WOULD hear about it, at least one raid. I'm sorry to have to point you to the sites listed above by another, but yes this is in fact a cult. They follow a leader. They practice what is asked of them by the leader. They are brought into a mindset that if you don't follow the rules you won't go to heaven. Raids on a convention? In order to have a "raid" as you call it, there has to be someone report a crime to the authorities. Who attends the conventions? Members of the cult. What are members instructed through the fear of losing their salvation going to do? Report any complaints first to the workers. Where does it go from there? No where as the 2x2's don't want the law meddling into their where abouts and their being. Thus being referred to as the "SECRET SECT". The only time the law is involved is if the person goes to them first. Then to cover their own butts. the workers gallop out on their white horse and act as though this is what they would always do, contact the authorities. Thats a bunch of bull and many of you know it. I am currently working very closely with the Government on a matter that involves this way and I have been given all the facts as to what needs to be done to cause a investigation. I started a thread on this matter and if you want to come forth to grieve your complaints and concerns there is a e-mail address you can contact me at. Jim
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 11:33:35 GMT -5
Post by H.A.S. on Sept 29, 2008 11:33:35 GMT -5
Whether someone is Christian or not, people know about them. Not many in our daily lives as I said but the conventions are quite obvious really. And as I said if there are illegal things going on why haven't there been a bunch of raids? This just doesn't add up. But sure, tell me what is going on. If things have been being done why doesn't it show up at all? The government wouldn't keep it secret. We WOULD hear about it, at least one raid. I wasn't aware that all cults were illegal. When did that law get passed?
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 11:44:55 GMT -5
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 29, 2008 11:44:55 GMT -5
Whether someone is Christian or not, people know about them. Not many in our daily lives as I said but the conventions are quite obvious really. And as I said if there are illegal things going on why haven't there been a bunch of raids? This just doesn't add up. But sure, tell me what is going on. If things have been being done why doesn't it show up at all? The government wouldn't keep it secret. We WOULD hear about it, at least one raid. You know, nancers777, if you have read this website and others such as TTT and TLT, AND reviewed cult recovery sites, and you don't see this as a "cult", then you should go ahead and ignore everything you read here and join right up, get married to the man you mentioned that you aren't close enough to talk about it with him. This organization isn't "raided" because they don't cause a physical threat, and it is difficult to prove a mental threat. Have you been watching the situation with the Mormon polygamy (Jeffers)? Their HOMES were raided, but not their worship services -- and the raid was about their lifestyle and conduct not about their services. The Waco Texas raid was on the same grounds. The F&W are NOT in this category....and you WON'T see them raided. Your thinking seems to be Raid = cult. That is a great leap in logic. It is still a cult without it having ever been raided. So it seems, either you haven't done your homework (reading cult recovery websites, TTT, TLT), or you are currently a F or W trying to use a ruse to make a point. Best regards, Edy
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 11:56:19 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 11:56:19 GMT -5
Edy and Niles, it would go a long way with me if people like you would FIRST state which cult you belong to, and which cult practices you follow, so that we could discuss the cult practices of the f&w's on even ground.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 12:24:26 GMT -5
Post by nancers777 on Sept 29, 2008 12:24:26 GMT -5
Cult doesn't to me mean illegal activity or raid but I was asking in that way because some on here seem to be defining it that way. So just because a church is a cult it doesnt mean it is bad or has any illegal activity but people ARE saying there are illegal activities going on. So if that is true we would have homes raided or services raided. And obviously it wouldn't be the Friends reporting it but if you really think about it the exs would if they truly felt this way. I mean that's what has been happening with places like Jeffers and Waco. And look at conventions, they have nearly the same set up housing and dining wise as those places so that could be a place to raid (not that that set up is illegal, it is far from it) because it could have "illegal" activity. If homes were raided in Waco with no reports of something and it just being the gov.'t finding this suspicious place why haven't conventions been raided? Because it isn't true that that is how they are being raided illegal activity has to be reported just as ex's would if they were truly against the church their beliefs and their "illegal" activities. So if the mormon sects were raided home wise (which is also where they had their services, much liike convention grounds) there had to have been a basis for allegations with illegal activity. If this truly had illegal activity going on (The Truth) why wouldn't they raid convention grounds? Much easier than raiding MULTIPLE homes. What I am saying is I don't see what people are talking about and am saying if it is so horrible and you are an ex then REPORT it, obviously if you aren't doing that it is more than likely a LIE that any illegal activity is present, you just have something against the church. So cult doesn't equal bad or illegal but illegalities=raids so if this does have illegal things going on why no raids? Ex's can get convention dates and know places also so it's not that hard to have one raided. As for the whole boyfriend thing, you can close your mouth about it unless you have actually talked to me about it because had you actually messaged me about it like many did you would now know that I have talked to him a lot about professing, we pray together and read the Bible together along with sing hymns together. Which is stuff I had struggled with before because of his shyness. We worked things out as a couple with the help of God. So do your research first!
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 12:30:40 GMT -5
Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Sept 29, 2008 12:30:40 GMT -5
I think people like to throw around that word brainwashing. I hate to tell you people but not all brainwashing is bad. In fact, we could probably all use a little brainwashing "with God's word as the soap". (I stole that quote.. although I don't know who the original "author" is.)
People tell me that I'm brainwashing my children by homeschooling them. Apparently, whenever you teach someone something, you are brainwashing them. *Shrug* So, protecting their hearts and minds (which God TELLS us to do with our own hearts and minds, and would only make sense to do with our own children's heart's and minds since they do not yet have the capability to do themselves because they are little sponges that soak up EVERYTHING) is brainwashing (whether you homeschool or not).
Personally, I view a cult as any false religion. I see false religion as anything that goes against God's word.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 12:35:18 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 12:35:18 GMT -5
nancers, glad to see you have your head on straight. Everybody here knows there nothing evil going on at conventions. I personally think its better for your mutual walk with God if you don't tie yourself down to one church, and I personally think that will be tough to avoid given the generally exclusive thinking of the f&w's, so I don't recommend the f&w's for that reason, but then, nobody here listens to me on matters of God since I openly admit I know absolutely nothing about Him.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 13:23:30 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 13:23:30 GMT -5
aurora, I do think your story can be helpful when told; I would never tell you not to "go on." I do not have my head in the sand about sexual abuse. Been there. I'm not totally clear what sexual abuse has to do with f&w's "cult" status, though.
I think, however, that before you start claiming kiwi has his head in the sand, that you make sure your own is totally out of the sand. I have seen enough of your posts to form the opinion that you still believe and follow cult practices.
That aside, I like you, and hope you continue to speak up.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 13:55:05 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 13:55:05 GMT -5
um, aurora, quit trying to make the f&w way into something supernatural. THEY are the ones who are caught up in this possibility that they are worshipping in the one, true way, and thus, banalities like sexual abuse can be ignored. They are not making sexual abuse part of the ritual; they are denying it has anything to DO with the ritual, perhaps denying it even happened in their belief that God is in control. They want it to go away as much as you do.
re: your own cult practices, it seems to me that you remain a practicing Christian. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 13:56:27 GMT -5
Post by degem on Sept 29, 2008 13:56:27 GMT -5
First of all, aurora you aren't the blackest sheep anyone has ever seen. I think you are being too hard on yourself.
Second, I believe I can honestly say that some of us do not have our heads in the sand. In talking with others, including very close relatives of mine who go to meeting, they firmly believe that CSA needs to be brought out into the open. That we find it a horrible and heartbreaking thing to happen to innocent children.
Take care,
Gem
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 14:16:13 GMT -5
Post by Happy Feet on Sept 29, 2008 14:16:13 GMT -5
You mention the groups Jeffers and Waco. These groups live in compounds 24/7 and leaders have full control over their members. Convention is only 4 days a year and then people go back into the community but that does not make it any less a cult.
There are varying degrees of cults just as there are varying degrees of abuse. On a continuum like a child that is touched in his/her private parts to rape. It all affects the child negatively, it is all sexual abuse, it is all a crime, but rape is considered more serious than touching.
Other factors such as the age it started, who the offender is, home life, parents reinforcing group think, the amount of brain washing/coercion used, etc all have a negative affect it has on the person. Being brought up in a family of 2x2s has a greater effect than someone who came in from the outside.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 14:19:51 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 14:19:51 GMT -5
maybe you join a bowling team, but get in a wordfight with the most popular member of the group, who beats you up in the bathroom and makes up a story about how you decided to leave because you weren't a good enough bowler. Your story of the event comes public, and everybody can see your bruises and black eye, but they would rather not believe you; they'd rather believe their popular leader because it serves their selfish interests.
Is this bowling club a cult?
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 14:24:41 GMT -5
Post by degem on Sept 29, 2008 14:24:41 GMT -5
I am sorry aurora if you were upset by my reply. I don't know who you are etc. so how can I tell those 2x2 to stop treating you like the blackest sheep ever? You asked me" then why aren't your people over here preaching that message to my people?" When you say "your people who do you mean? The workers? The people I was talking about -very close family members are my sister, my mother in law, my mother, my husband, etc.etc.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 14:50:29 GMT -5
Post by nancers777 on Sept 29, 2008 14:50:29 GMT -5
Aurora I am sorry that this has happened to you but if you know it's wrong and feel it is so wrong and know that those are just excuses pull your head out of the sand and turn them in! HELLO! just because the 2x2's don't believe you doesn't mean that the government won't, if you are being honest you CAN take a lie detector to prove it. So its you're turn to quit making excuses and help. But I do have to say this does happen in nearly every church group. As a matter of fact my youth pastor from a church with the word CHRISTIAN in it had been sleeping with young girls. Along with the Catholic church, methodist church and Kingdom Hall churches having the same thing along with every other church in the world. IT ALL WILL HAVE SEXUAL ABUSE AND OTHER THINGS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THE WHOLE CHURCH IS EVIL! is it right? No it is absolutly horrible, devestating and wrong (my uncle molested my 23 cousins and I when we were younger, has he been turned in? YES). But should someone report it if they feel it is so wrong, yes
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 14:53:11 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Sept 29, 2008 14:53:11 GMT -5
aurora, In regards to abuse: Then why aren't your people over here preaching that message to my people? The abuse is still continuing. The victims are still not telling. The lead workers are still covering it up and excusing it for the sake of keeping followers in their meetings even though there may be other workers quoting you. Nothing is being done from inside the 2x2. It's not being dealt with at all here by people inside the 2x2.I believe your experience is as you have told us here. I can say that without a doubt there ARE some workers who are dealing with abuse as they become aware of it. The internet has brought about much more openness and understanding of the scope of the problem, and it will be hard for workers to be moved around without word getting out. There ARE also some members of the truth fellowship that have taken an active role in helping make sure that the overseers deal with these issues. I have been in contact with several of the 'regular' professing folks that have been contacting their overseers and asking for accountability for both past and present abuse that they know about. Just so you know, there are those of us here who believe what you have shared here, and that includes many who are in the truth fellowship. There is no excuse for anyone who covers up the abuse that you have suffered, no matter whether that cover up is from family or members of the fellowship. I can guarantee you that Gem is one of those people who believe you, and I want you to know that she is one of those who are aware of abuse which has occurred and would do what she could to help you if that was in her power. There is a another board titled Breaking the Silence which is a place where you could share your story with others who have also suffered abuse. This is a registered members only board, and only viewable by approved registered members. Within the board there is also another password protected area where abuse survivors can open up to other abuse survivors and get help in healing and 'venting' out of the public view. There are several members of the TMB who are registered there. You are welcome to register and join that board. I am one of the administrators there, and I know that you would be approved to join. wingsbts.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=logoutScott
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 15:12:48 GMT -5
Post by Jim Niles on Sept 29, 2008 15:12:48 GMT -5
Edy and Niles, it would go a long way with me if people like you would FIRST state which cult you belong to, and which cult practices you follow, so that we could discuss the cult practices of the f&w's on even ground. dietcoke, To answer your questions, I can't speak for Edy, but I will be the FIRST to state that I NOW belong to no cult after getting away from the 2x2's. I follow NO cult practices. I used to as a 2x2, but am glad to say I was released from that by the Lord. On even ground. On hilly ground. On top of a mountain. Where ever you want to. How many more ways have to be shown to you that 2x2 equals 4. There are also 4 letters in the word CULT. Amazing similarity, I think our conversation is about through. Jim
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 15:17:39 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 29, 2008 15:17:39 GMT -5
Jim, I'm sorry to hear you have discontinued your Christian faith and left off cult activities entirely. Or are you one of those idiots who define "cult" as "any group who doesn't worship the way I worship?"
Please don't be offended by my language, I use the word "idiot" merely to refer to stupid people who don't think the way I do.
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CULT
Sept 29, 2008 15:39:42 GMT -5
Post by Jim Niles on Sept 29, 2008 15:39:42 GMT -5
Jim, I'm sorry to hear you have discontinued your Christian faith and left off cult activities entirely. Or are you one of those idiots who define "cult" as "any group who doesn't worship the way I worship?" Please don't be offended by my language, I use the word "idiot" merely to refer to stupid people who don't think the way I do. That is a bit brazen of you to say I have discontinued my Christian faith. Because I left the 2x2 cult? I have finally found my Christian faith. Anyone is welcomed to worship as they choose. The 2x2's can worship as they choose. the problem arises when it becomes a direct issue involving my family and abuse happening that I will then get in the middle of their "religion", and step on whom ever is causing the pain. If I by chance can find another on the way, then that is just a bonus. I will be sure to send them a personal letter to their prison cell so they personally know who put them there. Wither we do or don't think the same way makes really not a bit of difference to me. Opinions are like bung holes, every body has one. ;D Some may just show they'res more often!!! Jim
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