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Post by face it on Jul 14, 2008 16:18:17 GMT -5
If you want to profess and live in the Wolverine State, JF will be your overseer. He ain't going nowhere. Like Barry Barkley, he is back home where he wants to be. So much for the overseers saying they preach where they are led...YEAH RIGHT. He will be 70 next year and he has spent the bulk of his work days in KY or MI...his kingdom! LOL
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Post by mrwood on Jul 14, 2008 17:18:58 GMT -5
If you want to profess and live in the Wolverine State, JF will be your overseer. He ain't going nowhere. Like Barry Barkley, he is back home where he wants to be. So much for the overseers saying they preach where they are led...YEAH RIGHT. He will be 70 next year and he has spent the bulk of his work days in KY or MI...his kingdom! LOL I don't understand this thread. What is its point?
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Post by freespirit on Jul 14, 2008 17:56:28 GMT -5
I have never met Jerome Frandle and don't know a THING about him personally.... but I'd like to invite him to my house for Thanksgiving. So, Jerome, if you're out there... please feel free to come see me. Anybody who gets this much flack on TMB can't be all that bad. Or *shrug* if he is, it will keep the dinner exciting. ;D freespirit
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 14, 2008 18:14:10 GMT -5
LOL!, free ;D Good attitude! M.
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Post by pressure on Jul 14, 2008 18:25:23 GMT -5
I'd love to have him in my home also for a little "one on one" discussion to see how he cracks under pressure. In all my years, I have found out the workers aren't so bold when you face them one on one versus them standing up at the mic and sounding so authoritative.
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Pink
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Post by Pink on Jul 14, 2008 21:53:24 GMT -5
I have never met Jerome Frandle and don't know a THING about him personally.... but I'd like to invite him to my house for Thanksgiving. So, Jerome, if you're out there... please feel free to come see me. Anybody who gets this much flack on TMB can't be all that bad. Or *shrug* if he is, it will keep the dinner exciting. ;D freespirit I know Jerome personally. He is human. Capable of good and bad. Some have only seen the good. Some have only seen the bad. And some have been privileged to see both. He would probably take you up on that dinner. Especially if you are the one doing the cooking. As a woman, your place is in the kitchen, right? edited-spelling
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Post by friend1 on Jul 14, 2008 22:01:50 GMT -5
I've never felt the urge to "crack a worker" in a heated discussion in my home. I really don't see where any good could come of it.
If I were going to crack anyone, it would be a noisy ex - but I feel sorry for them rather than angry. The only thing is if one just kept rambling on with a litany of whines against the friends and workers, I might just get sort of sleepy and begin to flake out!
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Post by TRY IT on Jul 14, 2008 22:10:45 GMT -5
I've never felt the urge to "crack a worker" in a heated discussion in my home. I really don't see where any good could come of it. If I were going to crack anyone, it would be a noisy ex - but I feel sorry for them rather than angry. The only thing is if one just kept rambling on with a litany of whines against the friends and workers, I might just get sort of sleepy and begin to flake out! Well, if you haven't tried it, then you really can't say if there would be any good in it. Try it on JF and he will just sit with his eyes closed as though he was sleeping and pretend he hears nothing and pretends he doesn't care! In fact, he really isn't pretending, he really doesn't care unless it has something to do with his orders. His answer to your questions will be - "I just don't recall" like the criminal not remembering his acts.
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Post by freespirit on Jul 14, 2008 22:15:23 GMT -5
I have never met Jerome Frandle and don't know a THING about him personally.... but I'd like to invite him to my house for Thanksgiving. So, Jerome, if you're out there... please feel free to come see me. Anybody who gets this much flack on TMB can't be all that bad. Or *shrug* if he is, it will keep the dinner exciting. ;D freespirit I know Jerome personally. He is human. Capable of good and bad. Some have only seen the good. Some have only seen the bad. And some have been privileged to see both. He would probably take you up on that dinner. Especially if you are the one doing the cooking. As a woman, your place is in the kitchen, right? edited-spelling well... as a human I enjoy eating good homemade food. As a spouse, I enjoy doing something meaningful for my partner. As a parent, I enjoy feeding my child something nutritious. As a friend, I enjoy doing things for other people that make them feel special. As a woman though...weeeeeeeeeeeell.... I like sex, shopping and going to the spa more than cooking. ;D **thinks for a moment** Cooking I suppose does somehow kinda connect with influential females through out history though. Ester and Abigail supervised making feasts and then... well... I kinda enjoy the power of being able to decide if one is going to make something healthy or go ahead and dump rat poison in the food. Choices, choices. freespirit
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Pink
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Post by Pink on Jul 14, 2008 22:24:25 GMT -5
I know Jerome personally. He is human. Capable of good and bad. Some have only seen the good. Some have only seen the bad. And some have been privileged to see both. He would probably take you up on that dinner. Especially if you are the one doing the cooking. As a woman, your place is in the kitchen, right? edited-spelling well... as a human I enjoy eating good homemade food. As a spouse, I enjoy doing something meaningful for my partner. As a parent, I enjoy feeding my child something nutritious. As a friend, I enjoy doing things for other people that make them feel special. As a woman though...weeeeeeeeeeeell.... I like sex, shopping and going to the spa more than cooking. ;D **thinks for a moment** Cooking I suppose does somehow kinda connect with influential females through out history though. Ester and Abigail supervised making feasts and then... well... I kinda enjoy the power of being able to decide if one is going to make something healthy or go ahead and dump rat poison in the food. Choices, choices. freespirit I guess that wasn't fair. Since you don't really know JF you wouldn't see my veiled attempt of...oh, I don't know. Seriously, freespirit. If you are going to be your true self, free and all, different from the norm of 'fessin women, and you invite Jerome, please invite me. I promise to be good. I'll even bring the scones ;D Or at least write back and give us a recap. Just a couple of helpful hints: Please, don't go barefoot. And Don't mention s-e-x. (more humor)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2008 23:00:47 GMT -5
I've met JF. Nice seeming fellow and appeared like a typical overseer, a Teflon Man.
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Post by freespirit on Jul 14, 2008 23:12:25 GMT -5
Pink, you are DEFINITELY invited--especially if you are bringing scones! I won't mention s-e-x... but, um... I will be barefoot. Barefoot in the kitchen, belting out hymns and sending good loving vibes to all. ;D ;D I looooooooooooove people. I admit to realizing that I am both appealing and appalling at times so I understand how I sometimes come across... I really do. I get used to people being taken aback... but eventually most of them get over themselves. Or they don't. Whatever. I am seriously too old to be intimidated by eyebrows. I won't be wearing a long out-of-style blue jean skirt with clodhopper tennis shoes, a Sunday blouse and a little 1980s tie thingy (cause nothing really screams "cult" the way that does IMO), but I believe in God, I believe in kindness, I have nice buns... er... hair up-dos, look "reasonably" conservative (my tongue isn't pierced and I don't have any facial tattoos anyway), and I do have a general guideline I use in tricky social situations: don't freak the old people out. At least not beyond what they can handle. So, I dunno... maybe he'll think I'm normal or close enough to a normal 'fessin woman that he'll be okay. I bet he will. I'm sure he's seen worse than me. Surely. I usually get along well enough with people even radically different than myself. In any event, I won't color my hair green until after he leaves, sooooooooooooo... yeah... I think it will be okie, dokie. The way I figure is that the *worse* that can happen is that I would get "the talk." I would try to behave enough to not get "the talk" but I guess I should add that any serious berating will make my husband angry because he's kinda protective, so I don't recommend anybody doing that. So... Jerome, you're invited! Come on down! I'll make the bed for you and light a candle in your room. I'm kinda sick of all these people beating up on you to tell the truth. I don't have any answers--maybe you've done it all perfect or maybe you've totally messed it up... I dunno... but you sure didn't ask for this mess and I have been saying prayers for you. peace, freespirit
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Post by kiwi on Jul 15, 2008 1:38:34 GMT -5
I'd love to have him in my home also for a little "one on one" discussion to see how he cracks under pressure. In all my years, I have found out the workers aren't so bold when you face them one on one versus them standing up at the mic and sounding so authoritative. And of course that is the spirit that Jesus told you to have?
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Post by kiwi on Jul 15, 2008 1:41:50 GMT -5
Pink, you are DEFINITELY invited--especially if you are bringing scones! I won't mention s-e-x... but, um... I will be barefoot. Barefoot in the kitchen, belting out hymns and sending good loving vibes to all. ;D ;D I looooooooooooove people. I admit to realizing that I am both appealing and appalling at times so I understand how I sometimes come across... I really do. I get used to people being taken aback... but eventually most of them get over themselves. Or they don't. Whatever. I am seriously too old to be intimidated by eyebrows. I won't be wearing a long out-of-style blue jean skirt with clodhopper tennis shoes, a Sunday blouse and a little 1980s tie thingy (cause nothing really screams "cult" the way that does IMO), but I believe in God, I believe in kindness, I have nice buns... er... hair up-dos, look "reasonably" conservative (my tongue isn't pierced and I don't have any facial tattoos anyway), and I do have a general guideline I use in tricky social situations: don't freak the old people out. At least not beyond what they can handle. So, I dunno... maybe he'll think I'm normal or close enough to a normal 'fessin woman that he'll be okay. I bet he will. I'm sure he's seen worse than me. Surely. I usually get along well enough with people even radically different than myself. In any event, I won't color my hair green until after he leaves, sooooooooooooo... yeah... I think it will be okie, dokie. The way I figure is that the *worse* that can happen is that I would get "the talk." I would try to behave enough to not get "the talk" but I guess I should add that any serious berating will make my husband angry because he's kinda protective, so I don't recommend anybody doing that. So... Jerome, you're invited! Come on down! I'll make the bed for you and light a candle in your room. I'm kinda sick of all these people beating up on you to tell the truth. I don't have any answers--maybe you've done it all perfect or maybe you've totally messed it up... I dunno... but you sure didn't ask for this mess and I have been saying prayers for you. peace, freespirit I would love to have din dins at your place I love your free spirit Tell your man from me he is a fortunate man
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Post by recentarriver on Jul 15, 2008 5:10:13 GMT -5
I have never met Jerome Frandle and don't know a THING about him personally.... but I'd like to invite him to my house for Thanksgiving. So, Jerome, if you're out there... please feel free to come see me. Anybody who gets this much flack on TMB can't be all that bad. Or *shrug* if he is, it will keep the dinner exciting. ;D freespirit Hi freespirit You will need to serve some strong coffee! IOW not too much water. RA
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Post by freespirit on Jul 15, 2008 7:22:31 GMT -5
I would love to have din dins at your place I love your free spirit -) You are invited! Tell your whole family. Tell your man from me he is a fortunate man Thank you!!! I'll do that ;D... but... I'm the lucky one. I don't know how the man puts up with me. I am a lot of trouble. Expensive too. freespirit
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Post by no whining please on Jul 15, 2008 9:06:47 GMT -5
It is difficult to understand why a person would focus his hostility and resentments toward an organization on one single person in that organization, in this case JF.
JF is a product of the system. I first met him before he "made his choice", while he was still in the US Navy. He does what he believes to be right. He moved up through the system as the senior leaders of the system saw fit. He came up through the ranks. To criticize him is to criticize the system. Why not just do that, and skip the personal attacks on JF. Why are you so fixated on this man?
It's the senior leaders of the organization who determine who gets advanced to overseer, and where they will serve. Not the rank and file. The members must accept the wisdom of their leaders. Or leave.
The constant whining about JF is tiresome, and infantile.
(P.S. I'm and ex-member. Although I don't agree with the system or JF, it is what it is. Whiners just demean themselves.)
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Post by LOST SOMEWHERE on Jul 15, 2008 22:47:51 GMT -5
It is difficult to understand why a person would focus his hostility and resentments toward an organization on one single person in that organization, in this case JF. JF is a product of the system. I first met him before he "made his choice", while he was still in the US Navy. He does what he believes to be right. He moved up through the system as the senior leaders of the system saw fit. He came up through the ranks. To criticize him is to criticize the system. Why not just do that, and skip the personal attacks on JF. Why are you so fixated on this man? It's the senior leaders of the organization who determine who gets advanced to overseer, and where they will serve. Not the rank and file. The members must accept the wisdom of their leaders. Or leave. The constant whining about JF is tiresome, and infantile. (P.S. I'm and ex-member. Although I don't agree with the system or JF, it is what it is. Whiners just demean themselves.) "You are definitely lost in the back woods."
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Something isnt right
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Post by Something isnt right on Jul 16, 2008 13:33:58 GMT -5
All this stuff about a system. Isn't it funny how everyone knows there is a system and just accepts it, but never can tell us where there is a system in the bible. That is what is known as a man made religion. And how can any person reading their bible and knowing what is the way God planned everything just say, that is the way it is. I can name many man made religions and the way they are, and who would say, Oh well, it is just the system. The shephard is Jesus, who leads his flock, and behold the wolf comes in sheep clothing. Don't ever just accept something wrong and pretend that is just the way it is. There is no guilt from the top down. Everyone is so callused in doing everything the way they want it, that they really are to the point that they think God will just say, Oh well , too.
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Post by peridot on Jul 16, 2008 14:56:17 GMT -5
I have a good memory of Jerome. When I professed in the 70's at age 12, he gave me a very nice leather Bible with a zipper. I thought it the neatest Bible because it had a zipper and it was my very own. Haven't seen him in a couple decades at least.
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Post by A good memory on Jul 20, 2008 9:14:03 GMT -5
A good memory? Many have good memories of Jerome, a young eager worker wanting to save the world. He pur forth every effort he knew. He was showing a spirit of caring.
Now, he is much older and very eager to control his people, meetings and everything that is involved in his kingdom. If you do wrong, you will only be forgiven when he forgives you. You must go to him and ask for forgiveness. If he says it is true, don't contradict him because he will oust you from his kingdom. He wants control over everything in his kingdom and wants to extend his kingdom to be the Eastern Overseer.
I have enough guts to say it like it is!! Who else knows but cowards in the shadows of the almighty? To bad the almighty isn't God! Don't forget, he will never get you into those pearly gates! God has the key!
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Post by peridot on Jul 20, 2008 14:37:58 GMT -5
A good memory? Many have good memories of Jerome, a young eager worker wanting to save the world. He pur forth every effort he knew. He was showing a spirit of caring. Now, he is much older and very eager to control his people, meetings and everything that is involved in his kingdom. If you do wrong, you will only be forgiven when he forgives you. You must go to him and ask for forgiveness. If he says it is true, don't contradict him because he will oust you from his kingdom. He wants control over everything in his kingdom and wants to extend his kingdom to be the Eastern Overseer. I have enough guts to say it like it is!! Who else knows but cowards in the shadows of the almighty? To bad the almighty isn't God! Don't forget, he will never get you into those pearly gates! God has the key! I hear your pain and your grief. I can even feel some of your pain and grief but not like you can. I left Michigan in 1990. At that time Michigan had many "messes" that were brought to the workers attention and not dealt with, instead the people who brought up the issues were punished by being told not to come to meeting, amongst other things....I moved out-of-state, continued in meetings until 2004. When I left MI, Jerome hadn't been in the work there for awhile--there were mega problems before he became overseer. I don't envy any worker/ overseer/ or anyone else, that has to deal with what I saw, heard, or experienced in the truth while in MI. Are you in Michigan now? May you find peace, Judy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2008 14:51:48 GMT -5
All this stuff about a system. Isn't it funny how everyone knows there is a system and just accepts it, but never can tell us where there is a system in the bible. That is what is known as a man made religion. And how can any person reading their bible and knowing what is the way God planned everything just say, that is the way it is. I can name many man made religions and the way they are, and who would say, Oh well, it is just the system. The shephard is Jesus, who leads his flock, and behold the wolf comes in sheep clothing. Don't ever just accept something wrong and pretend that is just the way it is. There is no guilt from the top down. Everyone is so callused in doing everything the way they want it, that they really are to the point that they think God will just say, Oh well , too. Well for starters, the instructions of Jesus in Matthew 10 was quite clearly a system for that short mission. There is nothing wrong with having "a system." They are necessary to create order and organisation, etc. It's types of systems which may be wrong, not the concept of having one. The Friends and workers fellowship quite clearly is a system. Nothing wrong with it being a system. What comes in for criticisms are certain aspects of, or effects resulting from, that particular system. God quite clearly recognises the need for systems to govern human relationships are every level, both natural and spiritual. By inferring the F&W's fellowship is not a system, or that there is no system in the Bible (please look again !), creates an issue out of nothing.
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what ever you may call it
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Post by what ever you may call it on Jul 24, 2008 23:33:51 GMT -5
If you want to call Jesus's teaching a system, and the workers and friends are using the same governing system, no wonder there is so much trouble. Following Jesus and his teachings is not a system. It is strictly a personal way of life.
Someone wrote that Jerome has gone through the system, payed his dues and deserves recognition for it. Jesus's system involved dying on the cross for our sins. Now that is paying the price, not having a human pride and fighting for control. If Jerome dies on a cross we will all put him on his pedestal. In the meantime, keep Jesus as your system, follow his teachings and we will never have to have this ridiculous discussion again.
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Post by call it system on Jul 25, 2008 9:03:06 GMT -5
In the meantime, keep Jesus as your system, follow his teachings and we will never have to have this ridiculous discussion again. "If everybody would just be nice, we wouldn't need to spend so much money on police." No, this is not a ridiculous discussion. The 2x2s are a man-made system. There is a hierarchy. There is structure, a chain of command. A person works their way up through the ranks to positions of leadership. Whether or not this is scriptual has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. We discuss the reality of the 2x2 system. If it doesn't fit your understanding of how things should be, leave. I did. But it exists with or without my or your approval. To discuss it is not ridiculous. JF came up through the system. Fact. He paid his dues within the system. Fact. He was not 'promoted to the head of the class' from day one. He's invested a lifetime. I may think that JF is 'nuts' for spending his lifetime living as he has, but he has met the requirements within the system to be a leader in the system. System, system, system....
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Post by Failure on Jul 25, 2008 11:11:06 GMT -5
In the meantime, keep Jesus as your system, follow his teachings and we will never have to have this ridiculous discussion again. "If everybody would just be nice, we wouldn't need to spend so much money on police." No, this is not a ridiculous discussion. The 2x2s are a man-made system. There is a hierarchy. There is structure, a chain of command. A person works their way up through the ranks to positions of leadership. Whether or not this is scriptual has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. We discuss the reality of the 2x2 system. If it doesn't fit your understanding of how things should be, leave. I did. But it exists with or without my or your approval. To discuss it is not ridiculous. JF came up through the system. Fact. He paid his dues within the system. Fact. He was not 'promoted to the head of the class' from day one. He's invested a lifetime. I may think that JF is 'nuts' for spending his lifetime living as he has, but he has met the requirements within the system to be a leader in the system. System, system, system.... Hey, thanks!. You said it all..... system, system, system. CULT SYSTEM!!! Read what a cult is and you will find the definition of JF's actions and control. Maybe the religion should be renamed from 2X2 religion to JF's Systematic religion.
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Post by How about Truth on Jul 26, 2008 20:25:33 GMT -5
Just love that system description. Who does this system belong too? Who promotes you in this system? Who rewards you in this system? Who accepts you in this system? What are your dues? How does one get ahead of another in this system? Better yet, how does one get rid of the riff -raff in this system?
Now, why do we call it the truth when it is a system? It is the only right way, a great close family, love and a wonderful spirit. None of those qualifications would get you in the system. Pride, control, demanding, arrogant, rude, ruthless. That is how you get to the top. Is that what the system is? Jesus was the top dog, the big cheese and no where do I read those qualifications.
So, if you payed your dues and your up to the top in the system, I hope the great leader realizes that Jesus won't know him or want to know him. Jesus was so humble he died for us.
What on earth are people that go to meeting willing to accept and let things happen that are just mind boggling. Find the system in the bible and look at what you see. If the blind lead the blind, they both fall in the ditch.
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