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Post by ithascome on Sept 25, 2009 17:55:06 GMT -5
We *do* agree on a doctrine: Our doctrine is to not have a doctrine that we agree on. ;D fs What do you think it should include... Now exes... let the 2x2s have their say first.... after all it is them that will have to follow it... Right?
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shiloh
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Post by shiloh on Sept 25, 2009 20:21:51 GMT -5
Varies by region, generation, etc..
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Post by electbygrace on Sept 25, 2009 20:54:57 GMT -5
Where's bert and his lists when you need him/her actually it would be refreshing to see someone else professing's go at this. I'm sure i'd prefer GIC's draft 'statement of beliefs' over bert's.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 25, 2009 20:57:32 GMT -5
Does freespirit tell the truth?
I read on another thread that the reason the 2x2s do not have a doctrine is because they want to be lead by the spirit. Well that sounds all well and good... but I wonder where we would be if Paul for example had not left us any written record. I am sure he was lead by the Holy Spirit .
Another thing I wonder about is... if the workers are lead by the Holy Spirit why is it not the same spirit from one location to the next/ one gereration to the next... seems to me the workers do not follow the same spirit.... they seem to have a different philosophy. IMO The flow of Holy Spirit truth is open and consistent and not disjointed.
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Post by sharon on Sept 25, 2009 21:02:57 GMT -5
I agree. Much of the unspoken "doctrine" still falls upon what was the go of things when the truths' fellowship was incepted. The women are to look like they're from the Victorian age, the men are to be "heads" over the women, because women don't have the sense to come in out of the rain unless some "man that is over them" tells them what and how to get in out of the rain. And some men care so little that the women are all wet and drowning because they don't think women can think for themselves, so they should drown.
Anyhoo! The unspoken doctrine is there and it is stiff and it is unrelenting and it is out of culture...it makes the members very much exhibitionists in every way....IF they want to keep their idenity a "secret" then they are going about it in the wrong way. Looking and dressing and acting like the average Joe Blow is more apt to leave people to their own devices without trouble.
There is a contridiction in this doctrine....1) We 're need to shine before the world so they can see by our lives who and what we are. THNE 2) We have no history because itisn't about us, but about Jesus so we don't want people looking AT US, but looking at Jesus.
Well? Which is it?
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Post by ithascome on Sept 25, 2009 21:29:01 GMT -5
I am going to help the 2x2s out here... I fully expected this verse to pop up... so here she blows... "You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.' (2 Corinthians 3:3 NIV) So this might be a good reason for not having a written doctrine... but IMO it still does not say it is wrong to write down a statement of your beliefs. The following link tells the Church of God's Statement of Befiefs... Do you agree of disagree with them? www.wcg.org/lit/aboutus/beliefs/This is one of their statements... I agree with 100% The church, the Body of Christ, consists of all who trust in Jesus Christ. How many of you 2x2s do not believe this?
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Post by GodIsLove on Sept 25, 2009 23:29:08 GMT -5
Growing up I did not believe that just anyone who trusted in Jesus Christ would be a part of the church.. only those who are a part of the 'true fold' (2x2s). But of course I never really 'saw' the verses on trusting in Jesus and that being our salvation. Okay but a new question that has arisen for me is that okay so many people DO believe in Christ, but you don't see results in their life.. so I guess they haven't really been born again maybe? I also think about the Catholic Church and how far from the real truth of the Bible they are and yet they believe in Christ. Just some things to think about.. what do others think about this?
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Post by ithascome on Sept 25, 2009 23:41:11 GMT -5
Thanks...
Here is a Baptist Church statement that I found rather interesting
We engage therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit,
to walk together in Christian love (John 14:14-26; John 16:13; Eph. 5:2; 1 Thess. 4:9); to strive for the advancement of this church in knowledge, holiness, and comfort (Eph. 2:21; 2 Pet. 3:18; 2 Cor. 7:1; 1 Thess. 5:14); to promote its prosperity and spirituality; to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline, and doctrines, (Heb. 10:25; Jude 19; 2 Thess. 3:6; Rom. 16:17; Acts 2:42; 2 John 9, 10, 11); to give it a sacred preeminence over all institutions of human origin (Matt. 16:18; Eph. 1:22, 23; Col. 1:18); to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and spread of the gospel through all nations (1 Cor. 16:2; Matt. 10:10; Gal. 6:6; Acts 4:34, 35; Matt. 25:40; Acts 11:29).
We also engage
to maintain family and secret devotions (Deut. 11:18, 20; Matt. 6:6); to religiously educate our children (Eph. 6:4); to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances (Mark 5:19); to walk circumspectly in the world (Matt. 5:16; Eph. 5:15); to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, and exemplary in our deportment (Rom. 12:17; Eph. 4:25; Eph. 5:8); to avoid all tattling, backbiting, and excessive anger (1Tim. 5:13; Eph. 4:31; 2 Cor. 12:20; Eph. 4:26); to abstain from the sale and use of intoxicating drink as a beverage, and to be zealous in our efforts to advance the kingdom of our Savior (Eph. 5:18; 1 Cor. 6:10)
We further engage
to watch over one another in brotherly love (1 Thess. 5:14; Rom. 12:10); to remember each other in prayer (Eph. 6:18; 1 Thess. 5:25); to aid each other in sickness and distress (Gal. 6:10); to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and courtesy in speech (1 Cor. 12:25, 26; Titus 3:2); to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation, and, mindful of the rules of our Savior, to secure it without delay (Rom. 12:19; Matt. 5:23; 18:15-18).
What do you think about this list... anything you disagree with here?
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Post by freespirit on Sept 25, 2009 23:44:44 GMT -5
to abstain from the sale and use of intoxicating drink as a beverage, Jews don't recognize Christians. Christians don't recognize Muslims. Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store. ;D fs
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Post by StAnne on Sept 25, 2009 23:46:56 GMT -5
I also think about the Catholic Church and how far from the real truth of the Bible they are and yet they believe in Christ. Just some things to think about.. what do others think about this? Not only do they believe in Christ, they also have their doctrines in writing. (I disagree with your assertion of "how far they are from the truth of the Bible", but that's not the topic of this thread so I'll go no further.)
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Post by ithascome on Sept 25, 2009 23:59:38 GMT -5
I think all of us need to wear a Burka at times. ;D
Actually the verses that they list only talk about getting drunk. (Eph. 5:18; 1 Cor. 6:10)
Yes I think so.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 26, 2009 0:17:59 GMT -5
I find the verses that they list here to be very interesting.
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shushy
Royal Member
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Post by shushy on Sept 26, 2009 0:36:15 GMT -5
At this point I have nothing to say.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 26, 2009 0:40:09 GMT -5
Now shushy I have never know you to have nothing to say... ;D
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Sept 26, 2009 0:45:32 GMT -5
Now shushy I have never know you to have nothing to say... ;D LOL....
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Post by ithascome on Sept 26, 2009 1:06:10 GMT -5
well I have noticed something... many people may have a rough exterior.... but inside they have a heart of Gold... You need to go to a Bikers Service sometime. Those big rough looking guys actually do cry sometime.
Also I find that many 2x2s have not bothered to look into what other churches believe... they just assume they are false because the workers say so. This is why it is so hard for them to witness to outsiders.
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Post by GodIsLove on Sept 26, 2009 1:10:46 GMT -5
Okay, sorry for going off topic a bit. Yeah, I've always thought every other church to be false without even trying the spirit. I've been talking to others lately who attend meetings and they also strongly believe there is no bread in other churches. But I have not seen this for myself yet so I cannot approve of what they say. And if we just try going to a few churches and find them unsatisfactory and label the rest as wrong.. it seems that we are going back to the long-held belief that there really is nothing else out there that is good.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 26, 2009 1:34:19 GMT -5
It goes back to the statement... The church, the Body of Christ, consists of all who trust in Jesus Christ. The words that I just put in bold are something to really study... most 2x2s assume that means F&Ws... I do not think so... Because Jesus mentions "OTHER SHEEP NOT OF THIS FOLD " John 10:16. That could very well mean other churches...that have sheep that are a part of the Body of Christ. Also... the Bible talked about being called out... or called out body of Christ... the Church.
Called out from what is the questions ... could it mean many churches? It could... Jesus knows where His Sheep are for sure.
If you've accepted His call, then you have been "called out". The Sheep hear His voice.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 26, 2009 2:07:58 GMT -5
Anyway... lets get back on topic... 2x2s what do you believe? Write a belief statement... see if you can all agree on it... don't let what FS said your doctrine is... be true.
Got To get to Bed... it is 2:05am in Texas now.
GOOD NIGHT and GOD BLESS you all!!!
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Post by kiwi on Sept 26, 2009 3:54:57 GMT -5
Anyway... lets get back on topic... 2x2s what do you believe? Write a belief statement... see if you can all agree on it... don't let what FS said your doctrine is... be true. Got To get to Bed... it is 2:05am in Texas now. GOOD NIGHT and GOD BLESS you all!!! To love the Lord God with all our hearts, souls, minds and spirits, and our neighbours as ourselves
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Post by september on Sept 26, 2009 4:36:48 GMT -5
Anyway... lets get back on topic... 2x2s what do you believe? Write a belief statement... see if you can all agree on it... don't let what FS said your doctrine is... be true. Got To get to Bed... it is 2:05am in Texas now. GOOD NIGHT and GOD BLESS you all!!! To love the Lord God with all our hearts, souls, minds and spirits, and our neighbours as ourselves Except (in Ireland anyway) we've never been told to love our neighbours...
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Post by JO on Sept 26, 2009 5:17:26 GMT -5
This is our written doctrine:
The path of life, I've found it In Jesus most complete; Though now cast out and suffering, His fellowship is sweet. He's God's own plan and pattern, The new and living way; My joy it is to follow With Him each day.
I'm glad He ever found me And came to dwell within, The stronger than the strong man, Who saves me now from sin; 'Twas life I got, not theory: His voice I did obey And entered in by Jesus, God's only way.
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eh?
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Post by eh? on Sept 26, 2009 7:41:55 GMT -5
Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store. "And always take two Mormons with you fishing, if you only take one they will drink all your beer."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2009 8:08:04 GMT -5
I suppose the so-called 2x2 doctrine would be this: the life, example, teachings and redemption of Christ.
from our web site...
The early Apostles and Workers brought the good news (Middle English "Godspel") about Jesus. Their message could not be any more, and would never be anything less.
The Apostles wouldn't have understood doctrines of modalism; binitarianism; tritheism; henotheism or trinitarianism. They did not nail 95 thesis to the temple or synagogue wall. There was no Catholic style Catechism or Protestant Solas. There were no Nicene, Apostles or Athanasian creeds, nor any "Thirty-Nine articles of Religion."
They did not concern themselves with the burning issue of Jewish Independence. They liberated no slaves, nor did they save the environment or fight poverty and injustice.
These preachers did not speak about the world, and as the Apostle John observed, the world did not want to hear them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2009 11:04:11 GMT -5
This is our written doctrine: The path of life, I've found it In Jesus most complete; Though now cast out and suffering, His fellowship is sweet. He's God's own plan and pattern, The new and living way; My joy it is to follow With Him each day. I'm glad He ever found me And came to dwell within, The stronger than the strong man, Who saves me now from sin; 'Twas life I got, not theory: His voice I did obey And entered in by Jesus, God's only way. I'll go for that one. It would have to be clarified though that "his fellowship" means fellowship with the Christ within, and that "God's only way" means "Christ the Way", not a manmade system of congregating and rules.
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Post by samantha on Sept 26, 2009 12:47:05 GMT -5
To love the Lord God with all our hearts, souls, minds and spirits, and our neighbours as ourselves Except (in Ireland anyway) we've never been told to love our neighbours... Oh, you are a bad boy, September! ROTFL! And weren't you listening at all? The holy spirit teaches all to love their neighbour ( yes, catholics included in holy Ireland) So what did the holy spirit teach you, when you were listening? In 2x2 doctrine you do not need to listen to workers because it is only the HS who you have to follow so I read here somewhere today. And you can't be blaming Tommie either. Now, where were you and why not paying attention???
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Post by september on Sept 26, 2009 13:01:20 GMT -5
This bad girl ( ;D) was in the back row eating boiled sweeties. If I hadn't been chewing them, I might have heard something.
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Post by september on Sept 26, 2009 13:03:57 GMT -5
Oh and didn't you all know the fellowship has no doctrine? At least no doctrine save that of Jesus. What the fellowship has however, is a truck-load of dogma, all of which has been listed extensively here and elsewhere.
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