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Joined: Sept 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,116 Karma: 5
Walking away « Thread Started on Jan 24, 2009, 6:35pm »
I suppose this is an email to those who quit the 2x2 church. What was the straw that broke the camels back? or what event caused you to decide that you no longer wanted to fellowship in this church?
Re: Walking away « Reply #1 on Jan 24, 2009, 7:19pm »
It is probably a combination of several things. Lack of eternal security, lack of knowing what one believes, lack of clarity of doctrine and messages that are fuzzy/ambiguous, US versus THEM attitude toward weak members and unprofessing folks.
My big frustration comes from the fact that people in the church and ministry don't care that the group is shrinking to the point of irrelevance. Sinking ship kept afloat by reproduction.
I suppose this is an email to those who quit the 2x2 church. What was the straw that broke the camels back? or what event caused you to decide that you no longer wanted to fellowship in this church?
This, for me, is the classic question. For me the camel breaking straw was the dawning realisation that the 2x2 church was founded by a man in 1897 and therefore had no honest basis for claiming to be any different to any other church founded by a man. All those doubts and fears that everyone (no matter how devout) has in the quiet of the night suddenly made sense. Can a bad tree bring forth good fruit or a good tree bad?
Of course we all knew deep down that there were many in the fellowship about whom there was something of the night. We all knew that dark skeletons lurked in even darker cupboards and some things didn’t quite add up. We all knew that the church was largely populated in the same manner of the traditions of our fathers as every other church and we wondered why the honest hearts that God was seeking seemed to be linked by the same genetic code. But yet we were programmed to believe that all of this didn’t matter, that this was the one true way and there was no other. Of course some may enjoy the fellowship of others and are prepared to put up with living inside the 2x2 cave with its warts and all whether or not it has anything to do with salvation. Some may even be prepared to live on the periphery and sup with those from other caves but for me being a 2x2 was a desperate burden which I would gladly have cast off were it not for the ever overhanging threat of an eternity in the company of the 2x2 Satan.
Of course there are many good things about the fellowship but once I came to realise that the basis on which it claimed to be the one true way was fatally flawed I had no more need of it than it had of me. And of course, for some body of elderly gentlemen to have the power to even think they have the right to choose with whom one should be friends, who one can date, where and how one should (or should not) socialise and what one should wear is one step too far against liberty for me. So finding out about the history was a great relief. Somehow the truth had set me free. Matt10
Re: Walking away « Reply #4 on Jan 24, 2009, 11:02pm »
My perfect life in Truth, one which I embraced fully, came a halt when I left home for college. It wasn't long until I was in crisis, because I was so naive. I found no support from family, friends, or workers though I turned to them repeatedly. I was broken and rejected, longing to die but no hand, no hope was extended.
I am thankful now for that devastating experience that opened my eyes. I am sorry to everyone who I had judged in my self-righteousness while in the Truth. God leads His people with love, not through fear.
Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 1,729 Karma: 1
Re: Walking away « Reply #5 on Jan 24, 2009, 11:08pm »
My hubby was shunned for challenging their doctrine. I wasnt ready to leave then. My world came crashing down around my ears whn he left. 18mths later after much soul searching, prayer and clinging to God, I decided to leave because of a lack of love, and to keep my sanity and try and save my crumbling marriage. I prayed and asked God to restore me to him in his time but right then I needed to pull the blinds down on everything and walk. 3 yrs later the Lord began to draw me back to himself and took me down a beautiful road of discovering him.
Joined: Feb 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 69 Location: West of the Mississippi Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #6 on Jan 25, 2009, 12:04am »
When it actually happened that I walked away, it was pretty peaceful and laid out in front of me. Two things put me on my way: 1) I hated how the culture of the friends tended to treat their fellow man which included treatment of folks in the church and treatment of folks outside the church, and 2) I just couldn't get my mind around how so many workers really believe that Jesus could have failed in his earthly purpose. I don't believe that because I don't read that. If God can lie then Jesus can fail. This was a real freak out point in our meeting and I became even more of an outcast for even referring to it.
I think a lot of folks, friends and workers, are probably thrilled that I am gone.
Joined: Nov 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,082 Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #10 on Jan 25, 2009, 6:21am »
I started getting knots on my tummy just thinking about meetings. I could no longer bear hearing... "Thank you God for taking us out of the world, from so many people, saving us by grace..." What grace??!! How can it be grace if so many go lost? It didn't add up. I was also affected by the way 'others' were viewed as lost.
Leaving was such an amazing rebirth, in a way. It was like spring.
Re: Walking away « Reply #11 on Jan 25, 2009, 6:29am »
I didn't know what it was at the time (thought I was just too weak, not good enough, etc) but I would get sick to my stomach even thinking about going to a meeting. Finally I couldn't force myself to go anymore...just thinking about going to a meetings makes me sick to my stomach and causes adrenaline rushes...wish I had known then what I know now.
The transition would not have been so traumatic with literally years of feeling like I was a failure.
To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..."
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,824 Location: New Jersey, USA Karma: 8
Re: Walking away « Reply #12 on Jan 25, 2009, 12:02pm »
The turning point for me was preaching the gospel to a blind (literally) woman in Burlington, Iowa, USA, desperately trying to coax her across the line to salvation (e.g., stand up during the last verse of a hymn in the funeral home in which we were having gospel meetings) and finally awakening to the realization that she was already saved and said profession (e.g. joining the f&w church) would bring her nothing more than she already had -- except perhaps a more legalistic approach to salvation and a watering down of the grace under which she had served her Lord for years. That was a long sentence, now, wasn't it?
Joined: Dec 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 2,108 Karma: 2
Re: Walking away « Reply #13 on Jan 25, 2009, 2:02pm »
The 2X2 faith was my parents' faith and never mine. Other than their using scripture to correct and punish my sinful ways, I couild never get any answers from anyone. It seemed to question God and his ways was a sin. Blind faith isn't something I am comfortable with. Too cultish in my opinion.
Re: Walking away « Reply #14 on Jan 25, 2009, 2:27pm »
For me, it was the realization that my affiliation with the fellowship was a distraction, not a help to my spiritual journey. Also, there came a point where the rationalizations I had made to keep myself in the fellowship were not acceptable (to me) for my children. My daughter was 9, and I think we always look at things through fresh eyes when we think of our children.
Like others, the standard issues had led to my dissatisfaction for years, but being b&r, and having family firmly entrenched made it difficult to consider leaving. The basic issues for me had been;
- The "only way" doctrine which seemed even more ludicrous once I learned the factual history of the fellowship. Once you get rid of that doctrine, the rest falls apart pretty quickly, I think. The fear of leaving "the only way" is pretty strong. - The focus on appearances and man-made, but unwritten rules - The focus on the workers, the system and "the way" vs. the focus on spiritual growth and Jesus - The realization that there were many, many people outside of the system with satisfying spiritual lives
These are just a few things, but they added up to a feeling of choking spiritual claustraphobia. I spent a lot of time being angry at the system, but like others, at first it almost seemed impossible that we should leave. I think it really came down to having to "explain away" so many things to my children, especially my daughter. We had a tv, didn't follow the dress code for the most part, and didn't have many of the beliefs espoused by the group. As my daughter grew older, and I was forced to talk about those things with her, I realized that this just wasn't the place for us. I couldn't continue to say "most people who go to meeting think ____________", but we don't (but don't talk about that to them, because we don't want to offend anyone)".
We went to convention one last time, to see if it would be different, but it wasn't. So we made the decision to leave. Which was pretty anti-climactic in many ways, because our attendance had already dwindled to next to nothing, and we were probably considered "weak" saints for many years.
For me, it was extremely liberating, and just the first step in shedding things that were only weighing me down.
We still have family and friends in the fellowship. It seems to be a good fit for them. It wasn't for me. When I first left, I thought the fellowship was "wrong" for everyone. I don't think that anymore. If it brings you peace, and helps you draw closer to God... that's great! But I think that once you start feeling stifled and unfulfilled, it's the beginning of the end. I think it's hard to put the cat back into the bag.
IMO, religion should serve you. Many people are served by religious traditions that I can not tolerate. When I was a part of the fellowship, my dissatisfaction could always be answered with the standard "you just need to submit". But I see no need to submit to something that does not serve you well.
Don't worry... it will all work out. Follow that inner voice, and don't worry about the rest. God has amazing things waiting for all of us. This is just the beginning of your journey!
Re: Walking away « Reply #17 on Jan 26, 2009, 6:17am »
Like was mentioned by another poster, the "way" hindered helping "true" Christians outside the "fold". Different crisises in our lives truly showed us the lack of love and support the from 2x2's and how useless the workers were in dealing with "real-life" situations. Enough was enough, so we eventually faded from the meeting scene. (and have never regretted it!)
Joined: Oct 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 2,189 Location: United States Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #18 on Jan 26, 2009, 3:13pm »
I feel that, as a church who claims to be family focused, those within meetings seriously fail to teach their children. It's very clear, especially in the professing facebook forums, how biblically uneducated the professing youth are, and I believe that is because they are not encouraged to research the bible, the delve deep into it, but are encouraged to take the word of others instead.
Meetings was something I questioned from my youth, but often came to the conclusion that it was just my fault- that I had issues, my heart was defiant, and any questions I had about meetings were because of my own rebellion. Of course, that was what others often told me, and I began to believe it.
I married inside the faith, but, towards the end... we both began to realize that there were so many people inside who talked the talk but didn't walk the walk- which is exactly what they claimed the "religious world" did. We began to see that those we had esteemed were no different than the "world" they so hated.
What really broke it down for us is when we heard the gospel being twisted around. We had really begun to take a deeper look into the bible, and it was clear the female workers in our area were committed to false preaching, not truth.
Also, elders were getting away with dishonest business and sexual sin... all of which was swept under the rug.
So many little things just kept piling up. I looked at friends we had outside of meetings who seemed to live and breathe God, but those inside meetings swore that they were going to hell... and these same people didn't seem to have an ounce of holiness.
When the workers began picking on me for my pink toe nail polish and pants... I edged closer to the door. When they began to get into our business (telling us we shouldn't have moved back or bought the family restaurant without ASKING them first... WHY should I have to ask the workers if I can move back/buy a house/buy a restaurant????) my husband began to run for the door as well.
There was so much I questioned, but wasn't given real answers on. For a religion that claims to follow Jesus by church in homes, why is it they allow women preachers when the bible clearly says women are not to have authority over a man or to teach men?
I felt like the faith I had grown up with and questioned all my life was breaking down around me... and I am thankful that it did. I have so much peace and joy in the simplicity of Jesus, rather than trying to fit into a mold that was man made.
A society that denies the supernatural usually ends up elevating the natural to supernatural status. (P. Yancey)
One has only the choice between God & idolatry. There is no other possibility. For the faculty of worship is in us, & is either directed somewhere in this world, or into another. (Simone Weil)
Joined: Jun 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 2,210 Karma: 4
Re: Walking away « Reply #19 on Jan 26, 2009, 3:52pm »
Thank you for an honest and well thought out post.
Workers and friends would do well to prayerfully consider the points you have raised e.g.
1. Our youth being "biblically uneducated".
2. People inside who "talked the talk but didn't walk the walk".
3. The twisting of scripture by workers.
4. Elders "getting away with dishonest business and sexual sin... all of which was swept under the rug." Elders for too long have been appointed according to system/ministry loyalty.
5. Workers interfering in the friends personal lives,
6. According to scripture "women are not to have authority over a man or to teach men", yet sister workers too often control their territory like their own little kingdom and woe to friends or elders who would dare to question.
7. Growing numbers are leaving and "have so much peace and joy in the simplicity of Jesus, rather than trying to fit into a mold that was man made". Growing numbers are "professing but not attending meetings".
This church is in trouble, but no one wants to admit it or make the difficult choices.
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Minnesota Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #20 on Jan 26, 2009, 9:00pm »
For a long time I have not believe the "truth" is the "only" way to salvation. I do believe that Jesus is the only way. One day I realized that I was not living what I believed. I believe that Jesus is the only way not the truth. Then why do I have to belong to truth to have salvation? Then a lot of struggles went away. My relationship with God got a lot easier as well as many other parts of my life. The truth was tangled in every part of my life and when I started untangling it, things got so much clearer and I was able to let God take over things instead. For me the truth is more part of my problem than any kind of help.
Joined: Oct 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,491 Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #21 on Jan 26, 2009, 9:29pm »
I professed for nearly 30 years and I'd guess roughly half of them were as a good, hearty 2x2. The last half was a long process of "connecting the dots". Of course, I didn't realize that's what was going on at the time - but I did when the picture finally was put together.
Basically, I could see many, many scriptural and doctrinal problems, form and tradition stifling spirituality. But I could also see gradual change that I was happy to describe as "spiritual growth". And then one day, for reasons I don't fully understand, it was crystal clear to me that what was really happening was a growing awareness that the fellowship was founded on false doctrine and what I was experiencing was simply a growing awareness of that fact. It was like scales falling from my eyes. The dots were connected and the picture was clear.
From that point forward, the inconsistent teaching of the workers became unbearable. I was reported to our overseer for speaking in mtg about grace. Even though I was the elder, I was shunned by my own mtg. I don't really know at what point our exit became inevitable, but I can tell you it was absolutely amazing that one day....there it was - the open door. We knew without question that God was leading us, we stepped through it, and I can honestly say that I've never regretted it for even a single moment.
No guilt in life, no fear in death— This is the pow'r of Christ in me; From life's first cry to final breath, Jesus commands my destiny. No pow'r of hell, no scheme of man, Can ever pluck me from His hand; Till He returns or calls me home— Here in the pow'r of Christ I'll stand.
B&R, well indoctrinated, USA/Swedish ex-worker married, kids, axed in '86, free at last in '90!
Joined: Sept 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 1,845 Location: Castle Rock, WA. 98611 USA Karma: 0
Re: Walking away « Reply #22 on Jan 26, 2009, 10:34pm »
At the time I was excommunicated over absolutely and totally false accusation, my mindset was as Kiwi expresses his is now. Even then, it took nearly a half decade of "kicking against the p r i c k s" before realizing any error from indoctrination. So when I see someone who is now "kicking against the p r i c k s," it isn't too difficult to understand why they are doing what they do, and do and say the things they do.
As to what was any "last straw," even though eye opening had begun to occur, it was not until discovering someone who had been professing for over a half century, and an elder in that church for decades would mis-quote, then mis-apply scripture and never once admit error. Not even when his error was was pointed out to him...well, then I knew there had to be a reason for it, and began really to seek and search for just what that reason could be.
Re: Walking away « Reply #23 on Jan 27, 2009, 4:54pm »
For me, it's a toss up between learning about William Irvine and being lied to about it by the workers. William Irvine was just the missing piece I needed to complete the puzzle that exposed the "Truth" for what it was. Once I learned the truth, I connected the dots and figured out I wanted nothing to do with the church anymore. Besides, how could I trust those who so shamelessly lied to me?
BTW - I forgive the workers for lying to me; but I'll never forget.
Re: Walking away « Reply #24 on Jan 27, 2009, 6:59pm »
In my case, I don't think I was deliberately lied to by the workers, but there was an underlying deception that perhaps even they were unaware of. Once deception is revealed, especially when concerning something so important and meaningful in your life, you tread carefully after that. Your antennae are more sensitive to deception in other areas of life as well.
Interesting though, is that it seems the enemy tries to find trickier (I don't think that's a real word) ways to deceive, and he has some pretty subtle ploys.
The GOOD NEWS is that we can trust our Father to keep us. We can always run to Him with ALL our concerns and questions...AND...if we draw near to Him, our enemy flees from us!!
BTW - I forgive the workers for lying to me; but I'll never forget.
I like you, H.A.S., but I still think this is sad. This attitude runs a distant second to the realization that nobody purposefully misled you, any more than any other pastor misleads his flock by preaching things he cannot verify. That's just religion; we preach what works, and we "know" it's true BECAUSE it works.
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
THE TRUTH MEETINGS: The church of George Walker, Jack Carroll, Bill Carroll, Charles Steffen, Eldon Tenniswood, William Irvine, Eddie Cooney, John Hardie, Sam Jones, Clarence Anderson, James Jardine and Willie Jamieson. A nameless church meeting in worker-appointed homes on Sunday morning and Wednesday night bible-study meetings. Other meetings in this nameless church called "The Truth" include special meetings in schools/public buildings, annual 4-day conventions on farms, gospel meetings in rented buildings or homes, and worker meetings. Preachers are called "the workers" or "servants of God".
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