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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 28, 2012 14:37:12 GMT -5
Which "original thread"? The one I thought you were talking about (until your parenthetical clause at the end) uses the term "CSA" in the title.
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Post by mod3 on Jun 28, 2012 14:43:44 GMT -5
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Post by quizzer on Jun 28, 2012 17:12:34 GMT -5
I'm glad that the positive step of removing the meeting from the home of a CSA offender has been taken.
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Post by emmarr75 on Jun 28, 2012 18:01:03 GMT -5
Hi Rongo
This sounds really encouraging!
Emma
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 18:15:20 GMT -5
While I am not answering on behalf of the overseer or the ministry, I feel that some feedback ought to be made regarding the issue, that has recently been discussed on this board, about sexual abuse by a member of the fellowship in Whangarei, NZ. The overseer acknowledged that mistakes have been made in the past regarding the handling of such cases and has made assurances that the ministry in NZ will deal seriously with such issues in the future. The overseer has proven to be approachable and open on the subject of CSA and has in no way attempted to cover up the issue. He has encouraged open discussion and awareness amongst those (especially parents) in the fellowship and expressed support for victims wishing to press charges. The ministry has sought the advice of professional CSA advisors in handling the matter and refers criminal cases to the Police. In this particular case where a meeting was held in the home of the perpetrator, the meeting has been removed and the fellowship has been informed of the reasons behind it. The perpetrator himself has also acknowledged this to those in the meeting. By his actions, I feel that the overseer has backed up the message expressed at a recent mid-year meeting in NZ and, as others have expressed to me, we can be thankful for a ministry that is prepared to tackle these issues and to do all they can to provide a safe environment for our children. I don’t intend to make any further posts on this particular case, however if there are any who have further concerns you are welcome to contact me by PM. BTW, Scott, you’re welcome to combine this with the original thread if you feel it’s better suited there – I just felt that that thread had gone a bit off topic at times (plus I didn’t like the title, as in reality the issue was a sexual abuse issue not a sex issue.) This is really good news. While there is never room for complacency, I feel much more comfortable with the way our NZ fellowship is handling csa compared to say a year ago. Things have really progressed. Thanks to all (both friends and workers) who have helped make this happen. Noels has been proactive the last few years in seeking for there to be an improvement in the response to csa cases, Graham Thompson has recently declared very plainly to the friends what the NZ approach should be to such issues, and now we have seen the overseer being involved in correcting and completing the situation up in Northland . Having a senior worker triumvirate like this involving themselves and working in an aligned way to ensure csa matters are dealt with appropriately and impartially, should increase confidence amongst the friends that such matters will be addressed correctly in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 20:30:28 GMT -5
It looks like a good outcome.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 28, 2012 22:34:41 GMT -5
Nope. I think it deserves a new thread. Alan may not have worked through this as fast as some folks would have wanted, but it concerned a fairly old issue it seems, so his cautious and steady approach to this was probably the best way for him to deal with the situation. Over the last year or so, he allowed noels to have a meeting with the brother workers at convention to discuss CSA issues, and with noels has worked to find ways to deal with such matters. I personally support his efforts.
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Post by kiwi on Jun 29, 2012 1:11:03 GMT -5
While I am not answering on behalf of the overseer or the ministry, I feel that some feedback ought to be made regarding the issue, that has recently been discussed on this board, about sexual abuse by a member of the fellowship in Whangarei, NZ. The overseer acknowledged that mistakes have been made in the past regarding the handling of such cases and has made assurances that the ministry in NZ will deal seriously with such issues in the future. The overseer has proven to be approachable and open on the subject of CSA and has in no way attempted to cover up the issue. He has encouraged open discussion and awareness amongst those (especially parents) in the fellowship and expressed support for victims wishing to press charges. The ministry has sought the advice of professional CSA advisors in handling the matter and refers criminal cases to the Police. In this particular case where a meeting was held in the home of the perpetrator, the meeting has been removed and the fellowship has been informed of the reasons behind it. The perpetrator himself has also acknowledged this to those in the meeting. By his actions, I feel that the overseer has backed up the message expressed at a recent mid-year meeting in NZ and, as others have expressed to me, we can be thankful for a ministry that is prepared to tackle these issues and to do all they can to provide a safe environment for our children. I don’t intend to make any further posts on this particular case, however if there are any who have further concerns you are welcome to contact me by PM. BTW, Scott, you’re welcome to combine this with the original thread if you feel it’s better suited there – I just felt that that thread had gone a bit off topic at times (plus I didn’t like the title, as in reality the issue was a sexual abuse issue not a sex issue.) To those who bagged noels when he said that this was happening, shame on you. I am glad to say that I knew we wouldn't get anything else but that from our overseer, Alan is very much respected and loved here and I would say we couldn't have a better person and he would have backed Graham to the hilt.
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Post by kiwi on Jun 29, 2012 1:15:58 GMT -5
Nope. I think it deserves a new thread. Alan may not have worked through this as fast as some folks would have wanted, but it concerned a fairly old issue it seems, so his cautious and steady approach to this was probably the best way for him to deal with the situation. Over the last year or so, he allowed noels to have a meeting with the brother workers at convention to discuss CSA issues, and with noels has worked to find ways to deal with such matters. I personally support his efforts. Alan deals only in know the truth and the whole truth on any matter which may have taken time to sift through. Noels would be very grateful for your support Scott as we all are.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jun 29, 2012 1:49:35 GMT -5
Rongo the meeting was not removed from the home of the perpetrator until very recently. It took people speaking out many years later before any action was taken. The ministry have got into trouble for taking no action and action has only been taken since they have been in the courts for failing to act in other places in the world.
Rongo wrote; By his actions, I feel that the overseer has backed up the message expressed at a recent mid-year meeting in NZ and, as others have expressed to me, we can be thankful for a ministry that is prepared to tackle these issues and to do all they can to provide a safe environment for our children.
Compared to other ministries the action by this ministry was very poor. Again, no action was taken until people spoke out about it and until now the environment has not been safe for children. Let's hope the future is better.
Good on GT for speaking out where no one else has.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 5:58:03 GMT -5
Nope. I think it deserves a new thread. Alan may not have worked through this as fast as some folks would have wanted, but it concerned a fairly old issue it seems, so his cautious and steady approach to this was probably the best way for him to deal with the situation. Over the last year or so, he allowed noels to have a meeting with the brother workers at convention to discuss CSA issues, and with noels has worked to find ways to deal with such matters. I personally support his efforts. This is good to hear and credit must be given where it's due. Noels has been a very controversial character on this board but it appears the most positive steps forward so far on csa type issues has come from his neck of the woods. Thumbs up! Scott's post brought to mind something a senior colleague once said to me, which I have proved true many times over the years. "Ram (yes, that was what I was called by many), don't discount the idiots in life. You'll find they will do more for you than anybody else!" Now I am certainly not calling Noels an idiot, but I'm sure you will understand what I mean
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 6:04:34 GMT -5
Alan is very much respected and loved here and I would say we couldn't have a better person and he would have backed Graham to the hilt. It's good you had the experience and foreknowledge to expect this Keez and credit to you for standing by Alan. In my view this can be a pivotal moment within the sect throughout the world.
One of the reasons people are very mistrusting in these circumstances is that on most occasions when one worker is backing another worker up to the hilt, the person has found they are being stabbed in the back!
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Post by simon on Jun 29, 2012 15:31:40 GMT -5
What a wonderful work those three men have done, Alan, Noels and Graham. But - Alan , Noels and Graham, as a 'triumvirate' ?!! And the fear of 'being stabbed in the back' ? Let us hope they last a little longer than the first Roman Triumvirate, and longer than the second one also. According to Wikipedia, the problem with those was that the main men, Lepidus, Mark Antony and Octavian were not really equals. And divisions, war, bloodshed, murder all came soon enough. But that will not be a problem in any Christian fellowship though, where all are equal…hand clasped in loving hand, the faithful loyal band.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 16:05:06 GMT -5
What a wonderful work those three men have done, Alan, Noels and Graham. But - Alan , Noels and Graham, as a 'triumvirate' ?!! And the fear of 'being stabbed in the back' ? Let us hope they last a little longer than the first Roman Triumvirate, and longer than the second one also. According to Wikipedia, the problem with those was that the main men, Lepidus, Mark Antony and Octavian were not really equals. And divisions, war, bloodshed, murder all came soon enough. But that will not be a problem in any Christian fellowship though, where all are equal…hand clasped in loving hand, the faithful loyal band. In my view, if there is credit to be given, it should be given to the friends with conscience who got the ball rolling and stuck with it all the way. This didn't happen out of the blue or because the TMB got in an uproar (although that was initially helpful). Things don't get done sitting back and waiting for workers and overseers to wave a magic wand and make things better. Friends need to feel free to follow their conscience when things need to get done, and stick to it with persistence. Networking with others who also see the need will go a long way in making it happen too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 16:46:34 GMT -5
What a wonderful work those three men have done, Alan, Noels and Graham. But - Alan , Noels and Graham, as a 'triumvirate' ?!! And the fear of 'being stabbed in the back' ? Let us hope they last a little longer than the first Roman Triumvirate, and longer than the second one also. According to Wikipedia, the problem with those was that the main men, Lepidus, Mark Antony and Octavian were not really equals. And divisions, war, bloodshed, murder all came soon enough. But that will not be a problem in any Christian fellowship though, where all are equal…hand clasped in loving hand, the faithful loyal band. As you nobly point out this will not be an issue, because our 3 men faithfully and loyally are looking out for the protection of truth and the ‘little ones’ among us. But Simon, if you do by any chance spot a ‘Cassius’ nearby with ‘ … a lean and hungry look, He thinks too much’, who might be prone to stabbing, then I am sure it would not be out of place to report the matter to the 3 gentlemen concerned ! No one wants them stabbed down, now they have come to grips with this important csa issue. In fact there is a case for the triumvirate to now go forth to conquer, in the sense of seeking that their approach to csa is spread much further afield than their own country’s shores. When’s the next overseer meeting due in Australasia?
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Post by JO on Jul 1, 2012 1:04:57 GMT -5
It's good to know the right thing is being done.
This is not about "punishing" offenders so much as changing the culture that has enabled error to go unchallenged and people to be hurt.
Perpetrators are also victims of the lack of openness and accountability over the years. Some have been in good standing with the church until they've gone to meet their Maker. How tragic!
An important function of Christian fellowship is to be accountable to one another in serious matters like sexual immorality and especially child sexual abuse.
Repentant perpetrators need the support of the church to help keep them out of temptation, but it would be wrong to beat them when they're down.
Repentant sinners are always more useful in the church than hypocrites.
............... ..................... ..................... .................... ..................... .................
2 Corinthians 2:5 If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely.
6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient.
7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 1, 2012 9:45:58 GMT -5
What a wonderful work those three men have done, Alan, Noels and Graham. But - Alan , Noels and Graham, as a 'triumvirate' ?!! And the fear of 'being stabbed in the back' ? Let us hope they last a little longer than the first Roman Triumvirate, and longer than the second one also. According to Wikipedia, the problem with those was that the main men, Lepidus, Mark Antony and Octavian were not really equals. And divisions, war, bloodshed, murder all came soon enough. But that will not be a problem in any Christian fellowship though, where all are equal…hand clasped in loving hand, the faithful loyal band. In my view, if there is credit to be given, it should be given to the friends with conscience who got the ball rolling and stuck with it all the way. This didn't happen out of the blue or because the TMB got in an uproar (although that was initially helpful). Things don't get done sitting back and waiting for workers and overseers to wave a magic wand and make things better. Friends need to feel free to follow their conscience when things need to get done, and stick to it with persistence. Networking with others who also see the need will go a long way in making it happen too. A very insightful post, clearday! As it is, after many have given up and left the fellowship due to inaction by the powers that be....that those exits helped power the members left behind, particularly the adult who were victims as a child. These things should have never been tolerated by the workers if they'd just studied their bible in this regard they would have seen that the Father nor Jesus tolerated this criminal behaviour.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 1, 2012 16:35:34 GMT -5
This is good to hear and credit must be given where it's due. Noels has been a very controversial character on this board but it appears the most positive steps forward so far on csa type issues has come from his neck of the woods. Thumbs up! Scott's post brought to mind something a senior colleague once said to me, which I have proved true many times over the years. "Ram (yes, that was what I was called by many), don't discount the idiots in life. You'll find they will do more for you than anybody else!" Now I am certainly not calling Noels an idiot, but I'm sure you will understand what I mean Yep. Totally get it. Kinda helps you trust the process of life, doesn't it?
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