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Post by michaeljaffarian on Jan 27, 2010 6:19:24 GMT -5
Hi all.
I'm connected with a global Christian research organization based in London, England. One of the things we do is maintain a database on Christian churches, denominations, and church associations by country, globally. Right now I'm working on the USA, trying to get updated statistics on every group we can find. So I came across the Two x Two's. BTW, we had them named in our database as "Cooneyites (Tramp Preachers)" which I now realize is a very poor choice of name. I'll see that we use the term "Two x Two's" instead.
Anyhow, my immediate research question is to find the best estimate of the number of members of this group (including children) in the USA. To get numbers for other countries would be a bonus. > Beyond that, I have to admit this unique and fascinating group has sort of captured my attention. I study thousands of denominations globally, of every kind you could imagine, and yeah, the Two x Twos stand out in certain ways.
> Thanks much for any help you can give. > > Love, joy, peace, > Michael Jaffarian michael@operationworld.org > > Senior Research Associate, Operation World Bulstrode, Oxford Road, Gerrards Cross, Bucks. SL9 8SZ England, U.K.
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Post by landdownunder on Jan 27, 2010 6:35:10 GMT -5
Interesting question. There will be no official statistics. Best guesses are by adding numbers who attend conventions.
In Australia I would guess 4900 men, women and children. Trying to remove "non-professing" children would leave about 4500 is my guess. That's based on the 2 states I know best, and (hopefully inspired) guesses for the rest.
Others here from Oz may be able to help refine my guestimates.
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info
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Post by info on Jan 27, 2010 9:16:07 GMT -5
BTW, we had them named in our database as "Cooneyites (Tramp Preachers)" which I now realize is a very poor choice of name. I'll see that we use the term "Two x Two's" instead. The Cooneyites and 2x2 are two distinct groups. Here is the link to Wiki as a start if you'd like to read more en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Cooney
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 27, 2010 21:27:40 GMT -5
Could you tell us about the "certain ways" you see that the 2x2s stand out?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 22:55:31 GMT -5
Off the top without getting too scientific about it, I would estimate Canada to be 15,000 conservatively. There are probably 10,000 in Western Canada alone. Again, I'm mentally thinking of conventions and numbers of Sunday meetings in some of the bigger cities so it's not very scientific. 20,000 total is possible.
I think "landownunder" has probably done a good job estimating Australia with his methodology. Examining conventions and their typical attendance numbers is probably about the best you will get. Ministerial overseers will have all those numbers available but they never release them.......something about David numbering the people.
In the US, probably a good number would be to allow 4-500/convention except for certain of the Western conventions which can double that number.
There are worldwide convention lists floating around. In the non-English speaking less-developed countries, conventions are quite small, often less than 100 unique visitors.
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Post by freespirit on Jan 27, 2010 23:08:13 GMT -5
Hi all. I'm connected with a global Christian research organization based in London, England. One of the things we do is maintain a database on Christian churches, denominations, and church associations by country, globally. Right now I'm working on the USA, trying to get updated statistics on every group we can find. So I came across the Two x Two's. BTW, we had them named in our database as "Cooneyites (Tramp Preachers)" which I now realize is a very poor choice of name. I'll see that we use the term "Two x Two's" instead. Hi, Michael. Nice to "meet" you. Just a small point here: I am not really sure of the best terminology to use, but "2x2" doesn't seem to be a good term either. The people in the group don't use this name (not even casually) and some find it offensive or off-putting. Good luck with the project though. freespirit
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Post by Happy Feet on Jan 28, 2010 0:00:02 GMT -5
BTW, we had them named in our database as "Cooneyites (Tramp Preachers)" which I now realize is a very poor choice of name. I'll see that we use the term "Two x Two's" instead. The Cooneyites and 2x2 are two distinct groups. Here is the link to Wiki as a start if you'd like to read more en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_CooneyThe 2x2s were always known as the Cooneyites - in fact the most common name given for the 2x2s is The Cooneyites. People still call them the Cooneyites today. Conveniently when Cooney left the 2x2s were able to say that Cooney is no longer part of them and they could deny that they were the Cooneyites. The those who left with Cooney - who are the so called 'real Cooneyites' have nearly died out. When outsiders say Cooneyites, they mean the group that we on this board call the 2x2s. The Cooneyites were and still are in most cases the 2x2 group. There is a group who followed Cooney wich most people have never heard of
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Post by kiwi on Jan 28, 2010 1:21:28 GMT -5
Hi all. I'm connected with a global Christian research organization based in London, England. One of the things we do is maintain a database on Christian churches, denominations, and church associations by country, globally. Right now I'm working on the USA, trying to get updated statistics on every group we can find. So I came across the Two x Two's. BTW, we had them named in our database as "Cooneyites (Tramp Preachers)" which I now realize is a very poor choice of name. I'll see that we use the term "Two x Two's" instead. Anyhow, my immediate research question is to find the best estimate of the number of members of this group (including children) in the USA. To get numbers for other countries would be a bonus. > Beyond that, I have to admit this unique and fascinating group has sort of captured my attention. I study thousands of denominations globally, of every kind you could imagine, and yeah, the Two x Twos stand out in certain ways. > Thanks much for any help you can give. > > Love, joy, peace, > Michael Jaffarian michael@operationworld.org > > Senior Research Associate, Operation World Bulstrode, Oxford Road, Gerrards Cross, Bucks. SL9 8SZ England, U.K. We do not have a name we use except for where a Government require for certain things. As freespirit has said the names mentioned are an offense to us and are not a true representation of who we are.
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Post by mountain on Jan 28, 2010 5:29:50 GMT -5
Names which would not create offence and which are used by the fellowship include, the Professing Church, The Meetings, The Way or the Truth. These names are more likely to create offence amongst ex members or outsiders than within the fellowship.
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julio
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Post by julio on Jan 28, 2010 6:36:37 GMT -5
Can someone confirm this?
It seems I've heard that in places where our church must be registered due to government regulations, I believe a name that has been used is "Christian Conventions".
Perhaps going with a name that has been chosen for this purpose may be the best option?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 7:09:11 GMT -5
Believer, some call us BELIEVERS. Tis' true. It's one secret name we use. sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!.....
Our local historians might record this unknown name!
We also have secret variants such as "fellow Believer" or "true Believer" We secretly call outsiders "non Believers"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 7:12:29 GMT -5
Question re numbers.
Can anyone explain why God didn't want his people numbered? What was David's sin in numbering the people?
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Post by Gene on Jan 28, 2010 7:39:51 GMT -5
We secretly call outsiders "non Believers" And sometimes they call us non-members "outsiders".
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Post by guitaway on Jan 28, 2010 8:06:51 GMT -5
Perhaps, professors would be a better name. Then, those who no longer belong could be non professors. Or ex-professors. It would help make the whole lot of us seem wiser too. JMS
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Post by lin on Jan 28, 2010 8:12:55 GMT -5
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Post by freespirit on Jan 28, 2010 9:00:24 GMT -5
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 28, 2010 9:13:39 GMT -5
Unofficial Names assigned to the Church Without a Name - called "the truth." Since the sect claims they take no name or title for their beliefs, it has been given many nicknames, the most common being: "the truth." Some other designations are: The Way, The Friends and Workers Fellowship, Two-by-Twos, 2x2s, Cooneyites, The Fold, No-Name Church, Christian Conventions, Assemblies of Christians, The Testimony, Testimony of Jesus, Nameless House Church, Tramp Preachers, Go-Preachers, White Mice, Dippers, The Black Stockings, Black Sox, The Jesus-Way, The New Testament Church, Reidites, Irvinites/ Irvineites, Alberta Society of Christian Assemblies. Following is a link to photos of official Letterhead for "Christian Conventions Representing Assemblies of Christians Assuming this name only" www.tellingthetruth.info/plogger/?level=collection&id=12Link to various names for this church has been registered in other countries: www.tellingthetruth.info/brg_guide/foreign.php
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Post by jason on Jan 28, 2010 9:28:14 GMT -5
It seems rather redundant to ascribe the name "Coonyites" to a group that expelled the namesake more than half a century ago.
I would be interested in this research organisation (based in London we are informed, although the word "organisation" is spelled after the U.S. fashion...) and the purpose for collecting such data.
Ultimately statistics of membership are guesses, and nobody's guess is much better than anyone else's.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 28, 2010 23:28:11 GMT -5
Names which would not create offence and which are used by the fellowship include, the Professing Church, The Meetings, The Way or the Truth. These names are more likely to create offence amongst ex members or outsiders than within the fellowship. Since when have these names been used by this fellowship to identify fellowship to the world?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2010 1:42:18 GMT -5
Jason hi. Any bad association is a good association as far as these people are concerned. We may as well start calling Catholics Protestants!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2010 1:44:32 GMT -5
I marvel at the number of times outsiders say we "can't answer questions."
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timber
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Post by timber on Jan 29, 2010 10:04:47 GMT -5
Interestingly, Bert, Acts 2:41 gives us a number:
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
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Post by samantha on Jan 29, 2010 12:48:18 GMT -5
Will you be counting all the 2x2 s? Will you include all those who still believe in Jesus but worship in a separate 2x2 meeting group? Will you include those who were 2x2 followers but now do not attend the original 2x2 group fellowship?
How will you know that a 2x2 is a real 2x2 or one who does not keep the rules, does not profess the whole package?
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Post by Rob Sargison on Jan 29, 2010 15:53:22 GMT -5
By George!! I had a neighbour, an Anglican chaplain, refer to the group as Clooneyites!
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Post by freespirit on Jan 29, 2010 16:50:31 GMT -5
By George!! I had a neighbour, an Anglican chaplain, refer to the group as Clooneyites! H'mmmmmmmmmmm...
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Post by kiwi on Jan 30, 2010 0:34:35 GMT -5
By George!! I had a neighbour, an Anglican chaplain, refer to the group as Clooneyites! Didn't have much of a cloo then did he ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 6:01:16 GMT -5
Interestingly, Bert, Acts 2:41 gives us a number: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Timber. We heard about "two" professing in the mission last year. But your point is interesting - I suggest we remove all references to David's sin in numbering the people as it has been superseded by your choice verse. That's the way religion works - it finds verses to counter other verses.
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Post by fred on Jan 30, 2010 6:59:30 GMT -5
Jason hi. Any bad association is a good association as far as these people are concerned. We may as well start calling Catholics Protestants! The name had been established many years before Cooney was removed, and subsequent to this, it was still the same group so why the concern about the 'name'. I suppose one could say the group outgrew Cooney and some of their original ways, so it was time to leave his name behind. In so doing they seem to deny his role in establishing the fellowship. Why anyone would believe association with Cooney was a "bad association" is beyond me - though it seems to be a prevalent mindset in the fellowship.
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